Another Gonzaga Discussion

[mr.hockey4242]

ESPN just posted an article (with Andy Katz) talking about who could "take over and win a NC by themselves", and he highlights NWG. And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Why him? Because he goes 15.7 ppg and 4.6 apg, and 5+ boards? Does he have a high efficiency rating or points per possession? Awesome.

When has he EVER taken a game over away from home against a ranked opponent? Has he? When has he done it against a top ten team? I mean ever. When has he controlled the game and made the most important baskets in the last minute to carry his team to victory? When has he made the last shot to win a game against one of the best teams in the game? Never. He's not done any of it even once, for UW or for GU. Kid's 22 and never done it.

Now, am I dooming him? Absolutely not. He's quite a talent. I've watched him his whole college career. He's definitely a solid player both scoring and passing. Can he take over and win the NC by himself? I suppose. It's happened before out of the blue. But am I going to at all believe that he can do it going in? How can I, he's never done it before, let alone in March, let alone in a late round. He's been largely below average in his games against top teams outside the state of Washington.

I get that it's easy to look at the #1 undefeated team and say, 'yeah, their best scorer should be able to do it', but he hasn't ever even shown that he can, let alone do it in multiple games to a FF or NC.

Can he, sure, why not. But if he does, it'll be his first game doing so (let alone however many it takes). How are people lining up to say this is at all a safe prediction?

It's the same thing with Gonzaga in general. Nothing has shown me that they can do what people are saying they can. They could surprise for sure, but nothing leads me to believe that I should anticipate them--going in--to get much into the second half of the dance.

I really, really fucking hope this is sarcastic

 

[ericd7633]

I think those metrics are fine, but even as I said last year, they don't cover everything. I think GU is a top 5-10 team so it's not far from where they are in the metrics. I just don't think that comparing a team that beats up on garbage all year to those who play much better schedules is going to be wholly accurate. Close, but not air tight. That doesn't make me a hypocrite.




Are you kidding me? There's not a lot of difference between losing in the 1st or 2nd round and the FF/NC? How many 1 or 2 seeds have lost in the first round? How many double digit seeds have ever been to the FF. See the correlation yet? There is a HUGE difference. Yes, the win or go home format means that shit does happen, but definitely not as much as the higher seeds going father.

The better teams do better in March for the most part. The higher seeds are supposed to win.

BracketOdds - Final Four

And the reason why people tend to excuse a typical 1 seed who loses early (a Duke or KU, or UNC, etc.) as just having a bad game is because they have actually shown over and over again throughout the entire season that they can play great teams back to back, and win. They prove that them losing early is more of a fluke than not. When you look at Gonzaga, they have only played 2 teams this season that are S16 quality going in, and those games happened more than 3 months since March. If they lose in the S16 then it's much more realistic to say that they are not good enough to win than saying KU is. KU will have played 6-8 games that are all EE or better, have done so playing them back to back, and won. They have played and beaten these team over and over, all throughout the year. If they lose in the S16 you can definitely make the case more that they just didn't show up, or the other team went on a run.

Also just an FYI. Gonzaga currently has an SOS of 90. Arizona had an SOS of 101 last year. But that didn't stop you from talking up the metrics. But I digress.

 

[CatsTopPac]

So you think a top 5/10 team has no shot to get to a FF? I guess that's why I don't understand because makes no sense.

And I stand by what I said. A bunch of high seeds could just as easily lose in the 2nd round and get to a FF. Just look at the last couple years. Oklahoma barely beats VCU in the 2nd round. MSU loses in the first round. Nova loses as a #1 seed in 2015. UConn almost loses in the 1st round and goes onto win the whole thing. My point is once the 2nd round begins anything can happen. Most the time the higher seeded team wins because they're better, but that doesn't mean they weren't pushed early in the tournament.

Also just an FYI. Gonzaga currently has an SOS of 90. Arizona had an SOS of 101 last year. But that didn't stop you from talking up the metrics. But I digress.

Man, you can't go a single discussion without bringing up a convo from a year ago. Jesus man, let it go. What happened to your apology for crying about this months after it was over? Gonzaga's SOS will be above 100 by the time they finish their shitty schedule, and win their shitty tournament. And it has nothing to do with AZ last year. I never even entertained AZ making the FF last year, let alone even a one seed.

And a top 5-10 team is a 2 or 3 seed. I just mentioned that I only think 6-8 teams could make the FF. That would give me 2-4 places to put GU in the top ten where I don't think they could be good enough to get to the FF.

Stand by what you said, but half of #1 seeds go to the FF. That's as good as all other seeds combine. A #1 seed is supposed to get to the FF. But 1 game doesn't make a season. If that team has beaten a bunch of other top teams throughout the year, they just didn't win that game.

 

[CatsTopPac]

I really, really fucking hope this is sarcastic

That I am sarcastic about NWG not being someone who could get to the FF or NC by himself, or that the article is sarcastic for saying he could?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

That I am sarcastic about NWG not being someone who could get to the FF or NC by himself, or that the article is sarcastic for saying he could?

You.

The fact you in anyway think that Katz is crazy for putting NWG on there as to be a troll.

You have to hit a game winner? Why?

Why aren't you pissed that he chose Ethan Happ over Koenig then?

 

[CatsTopPac]

You.

The fact you in anyway think that Katz is crazy for putting NWG on there as to be a troll.

You have to hit a game winner? Why?

Why aren't you pissed that he chose Ethan Happ over Koenig then?

I'm not just saying he has to hit a game-winner. Look at every game he's played against a ranked team away from home. He didn't do anything close to carry the team. He hasn't taken over a game once against them. He hasn't even gotten his average. He hasn't made any game-saving plays, and no, he hasn't hit a game-winner.

He's beat up on a bunch of weak teams and done well at home. That in no way is a recipe for carrying your team to a FF/NC.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I'm not just saying he has to hit a game-winner. Look at every game he's played against a ranked team away from home. He didn't do anything close to carry the team. He hasn't taken over a game once against them. He hasn't even gotten his average. He hasn't made any game-saving plays, and no, he hasn't hit a game-winner.

He's beat up on a bunch of weak teams and done well at home. That in no way is a recipe for carrying your team to a FF.

Jesus Christ

Have you ever watched college basketball?

 

[CatsTopPac]

Jesus Christ

Have you ever watched college basketball?

Nope. Ya got me there. I've just been faking everything I've ever said about CBB.

NWG has never even been in the dance. When was the last time he played in front of 20k people? He's never done well against teams that he would have to dominate at places that he has never dominated. Is there the physical possibility that he could do it, of course, and right on if he does. But don't you think if he was capable of dominating (let's say averaging 20ppg and/or 7apg) for the last three games of March, he would have at least done it even once already, as a junior who's played in a few of them and been expected to carry his team?

Again, you are literally just thinking that he can because he does well at home, or against shitty teams. Neither of those are what we're talking about.

 

[ericd7633]

Man, you can't go a single discussion without bringing up a convo from a year ago. Jesus man, let it go. What happened to your apology for crying about this months after it was over? Gonzaga's SOS will be above 100 by the time they finish their shitty schedule, and win their shitty tournament. And it has nothing to do with AZ last year. I never even entertained AZ making the FF last year, let alone even a one seed.

And a top 5-10 team is a 2 or 3 seed. I just mentioned that I only think 6-8 teams could make the FF. That would give me 2-4 places to put GU in the top ten where I don't think they could be good enough to get to the FF.

Stand by what you said, but half of #1 seeds go to the FF. That's as good as all other seeds combine. A #1 seed is supposed to get to the FF. But 1 game doesn't make a season. If that team has beaten a bunch of other top teams throughout the year, they just didn't win that game.

Yep you're a hypocrite. And FYI. Against Florida, Iowa State, Arizona and St Marys(road game) NWG is avg 14 ppg on 45% from the field and 67% from 3. Pretty damn good if you ask me. But I'm done. I cant stand hypocritical people.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Nope. Ya got me there. I've just been faking everything I've ever said about CBB.

NWG has never even been in the dance. When was the last time he played in front of 20k people? He's never done well against teams that he would have to dominate at places that he has never dominated. Is there the physical possibility that he could do it, of course, and right on if he does. But don't you think if he was capable of dominating (let's say averaging 20ppg and/or 7apg) for the last three games of March, he would have at least done it even once already, as a junior who's played in a few of them and been expected to carry his team?

Again, you are literally just thinking that he can because he does well at home, or against shitty teams. Neither of those are what we're talking about.

LMFAO. This is goddam hilarious.

Lonzo Ball...never in dance

Justin Patton...never in dance

Juwan Evans....never in dance

What has Lonzo Ball done? Shoot 2-8 from 3 at UK?

Williams Goss averages 15.8 PPG against his 6 best oppenents. He averages 15.7 for the year.

This is the stupid fucking thing i've heard in a long time

Stop making up random criteria for "who can carry a team"

If youve ever watched the NCAA tournament NWG is the EXACT type of player who could. But you're ok with big men like Patton being listed?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Yep you're a hypocrite. And FYI. Against Florida, Iowa State, Arizona and St Marys(road game) NWG is avg 14 ppg on 45% from the field and 67% from 3. Pretty damn good if you ask me. But I'm done. I cant stand hypocritical people.

Its bad.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Yep you're a hypocrite. And FYI. Against Florida, Iowa State, Arizona and St Marys(road game) NWG is avg 14 ppg on 45% from the field and 67% from 3. Pretty damn good if you ask me. But I'm done. I cant stand hypocritical people.

Against Arizona he went for 10 points a 3 assists,
against Florida he went for 14 and 3,
and St Mary's he also went for 14 and 3.

He went a total of 11 for 28 from the field, and 2-6 from 3pt. His season average is 15.7 and 4.6.

None of those games are anything close to dominant. He didn't win the game almost by himself (as Katz suggests). Again, he doesn't even hit his average. He hasn't carried his team at all in situations that at all resemble what Katz says he is his favorite to do in March.

And Iowa State isn't ranked. They're a 10 seed in your own bracket.

Bye.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Its bad.

Still waiting for you to show me where he's done it even once, let alone put his team on his back and carry them through March all the way to a FF/NC.

 

[CatsTopPac]

LMFAO. This is goddam hilarious.

Lonzo Ball...never in dance

Justin Patton...never in dance

Juwan Evans....never in dance

What has Lonzo Ball done? Shoot 2-8 from 3 at UK?

Williams Goss averages 15.8 PPG against his 6 best oppenents. He averages 15.7 for the year.

This is the stupid fucking thing i've heard in a long time

Stop making up random criteria for "who can carry a team"

If youve ever watched the NCAA tournament NWG is the EXACT type of player who could. But you're ok with big men like Patton being listed?

I don't give a fuck about Ball, or Patton, or Evans. I'm talking about NWG. If you want to have a convo about who in CBB can, then start and OP and we'll do it.

I'm talking about NWG not ever having done it before, let alone giving me any indication that he can do it in multiple games, on the biggest stage, by himself. Hell he's not even the highest scorer on his team in those games. Can't we at least qualify that as being criteria for carrying?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I don't give a fuck about Ball, or Patton, or Evans. I'm talking about NWG. If you want to have a convo about who in CBB can, then start and OP and we'll do it.

I'm talking about NWG not ever having done it before, let alone giving me any indication that he can do it in multiple games, on the biggest stage, by himself. Hell he's not even the highest scorer on his team in those games. Can't we at least qualify that as being criteria for carrying?

You are a world class dumbass

 

[ericd7633]

LMFAO. This is goddam hilarious.

Lonzo Ball...never in dance

Justin Patton...never in dance

Juwan Evans....never in dance

What has Lonzo Ball done? Shoot 2-8 from 3 at UK?

Williams Goss averages 15.8 PPG against his 6 best oppenents. He averages 15.7 for the year.

This is the stupid fucking thing i've heard in a long time

Stop making up random criteria for "who can carry a team"

If youve ever watched the NCAA tournament NWG is the EXACT type of player who could. But you're ok with big men like Patton being listed?

Yeah its bad.

 

[CatsTopPac]

You guys just make sure you spit after you're done with NWG and GU.

You guys can't show me anywhere that either of them have done what you're talking about. Over and over again they have underwhelmed when they've been expected to shine. And you guys still line up for it and call me fucked up?

Between Eric saying that there is no difference between a 1st/2nd round loss and a FF/NC, and Hockey saying that NWG can put the team on his back and just carry them to the FF/NC when he can't even outshine his own teammates in those games, you guys have said crazier shit than I have by a long shot.

All I'm asking for is proof that they've done it before, that makes you guys so sure that you can just talk shit to someone who doesn't see any evidence of that beyond them just beating shit teams and beating a good team or two a year.

God forbid I'm not lining up to call NWG and GU worldbeaters when they literally haven't done shit, except for every once in blue moon, ever.

You guys are clearly busy with a circle jerk, so I'll see myself out.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

You guys just make sure you spit after you're done with NWG and GU.

You guys can't show me anywhere that either of them have done what you're talking about. Over and over again they have underwhelmed when they've been expected to shine. And you guys still line up for it and call me fucked up?

Between Eric saying that there is no difference between a 1st/2nd round loss and a FF/NC, and Hockey saying that NWG can put the team on his back and just carry them to the FF/NC when he can't even outshine his own teammates in those games, you guys have said crazier shit than I have by a long shot.

All I'm asking for is proof that they've done it before, that makes you guys so sure that you can just talk shit to someone who doesn't see any evidence of that beyond them just beating shit teams and beating a good team or two a year.

God forbid I'm not lining up to call NWG and GU worldbeaters when they literally haven't done shit, except for every once in blue moon, ever.

You guys are clearly busy with a circle jerk, so I'll see myself out.

Hahahahahahaha

You get dumber every time you decide to reply

 

[ericd7633]

Haha. Dude is a clown and hypocrite.

 

[CatsTopPac]

And I see both of you guys finished on each other. Good job guys, I knew you could do it