AL MVP

[MilkSpiller22]

No Ortiz? Not sure how Encarnacion can be ahead of him.

No ortiz on my list... the 3 things that hurt him in my analysis.

1. the redsox scored 802 runs and that is 100 runs more than the next MLB team
2. only has 71 runs
3. only played 132 games(548 PA)(of course he will play more before the season ends)

 

[navamind]

No ortiz on my list... the 3 things that hurt him in my analysis.

1. the redsox scored 802 runs and that is 100 runs more than the next MLB team
2. only has 71 runs
3. only played 132 games(548 PA)(of course he will play more before the season ends)

I think if you're going to vote for a DH, they need to be the best hitter in their league by a good margin. Ortiz is having a ridiculous year (and one of his best overall), but I don't think you can really demonstrate that he's been the best hitter in the AL.

Trout: .321/.437/.564, .421 wOBA, 171 wRC+
Ortiz: .318/.405/.629, .424 wOBA, 164 wRC+

Ortiz is putting up much better power numbers, but Trout's got a much higher OBP and he plays in a ballpark that's a lot more favorable to pitchers than Fenway is. Factor in defense and baserunning and it isn't even close IMO.

 

[soxfan1468927]

No ortiz on my list... the 3 things that hurt him in my analysis.

1. the redsox scored 802 runs and that is 100 runs more than the next MLB team
2. only has 71 runs
3. only played 132 games(548 PA)(of course he will play more before the season ends)

So how can Encarnacion be ahead of him exactly? Do you think the 19 extra runs and 4 extra RBI make up the 51 point differential in BA, 48 points in OBP, 82 points in SLG, 27 points in wRC+, the difference in WPA (Ortiz 4th in the league and Encarnacion 34th), and the 20 point difference in RE24?

 

[soxfan1468927]

I think if you're going to vote for a DH, they need to be the best hitter in their league by a good margin. Ortiz is having a ridiculous year (and one of his best overall), but I don't think you can really demonstrate that he's been the best hitter in the AL.

Trout: .321/.437/.564, .421 wOBA, 171 wRC+
Ortiz: .318/.405/.629, .424 wOBA, 164 wRC+

Ortiz is putting up much better power numbers, but Trout's got a much higher OBP and he plays in a ballpark that's a lot more favorable to pitchers than Fenway is. Factor in defense and baserunning and it isn't even close IMO.

I was responding to his list of top offensive players in the AL. Trout is clearly number 1, but Ortiz should at least be top 7 and ahead of Encarnacion

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So how can Encarnacion be ahead of him exactly? Do you think the 19 extra runs and 4 extra RBI make up the 51 point differential in BA, 48 points in OBP, 82 points in SLG, 27 points in wRC+, the difference in WPA (Ortiz 4th in the league and Encarnacion 34th), and the 20 point difference in RE24?

I will tell you, when I do my analysis, I like to measure both Team independent stats and team dependent stats... So I will still use Runs and RBIs as ultimately that is what baseball is all about... I also factor in games played...

One of the formulas I use is ((Runs+RBIs-HRs)^2)/(total team runs scored)...

that and # of games played really hurt him...

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I will tell you, when I do my analysis, I like to measure both Team independent stats and team dependent stats... So I will still use Runs and RBIs as ultimately that is what baseball is all about... I also factor in games played...

One of the formulas I use is ((Runs+RBIs-HRs)^2)/(total team runs scored)...

that and # of games played really hurt him...

Do you do any accounting for the fact that Ortiz drinks live stem cells freshly squoze from aborted baby feti?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Do you do any accounting for the fact that Ortiz drinks live stem cells freshly squoze from aborted baby feti?

actually yes... I call it the feti theorem... Surprisingly enough, it improves his score...

 

[soxfan1468927]

I will tell you, when I do my analysis, I like to measure both Team independent stats and team dependent stats... So I will still use Runs and RBIs as ultimately that is what baseball is all about... I also factor in games played...

One of the formulas I use is ((Runs+RBIs-HRs)^2)/(total team runs scored)...

that and # of games played really hurt him...

Sure that's what baseball is all about, but runs and RBI don't truly measure how runs are created in actual baseball.

Player A walks
Player B hits a double, Player A goes to third
Player C hits a sac fly

Player A gets a run, Player C gets an RBI, Player B gets neither.

So you are saying that runs and RBI make up the massive difference in rate stats?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sure that's what baseball is all about, but runs and RBI don't truly measure how runs are created in actual baseball.

Player A walks
Player B hits a double, Player A goes to third
Player C hits a sac fly

Player A gets a run, Player C gets an RBI, Player B gets neither.

So you are saying that runs and RBI make up the massive difference in rate stats?

I said that is one of the formulas I use... I also do a team independent analysis... But we are talking MVP, doesn't team and Team dependent stats matter??

 

[soxfan1468927]

I said that is one of the formulas I use... I also do a team independent analysis... But we are talking MVP, doesn't team and Team dependent stats matter??

1. Personally I don't think it should matter for MVP
2. I was responding to your list of top offensive players, not your MVP vote. I don't think Ortiz should be a top MVP candidate.
3. So you think the difference in team dependent stats outweigh the difference in team independent stats?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sure that's what baseball is all about, but runs and RBI don't truly measure how runs are created in actual baseball.

Player A walks
Player B hits a double, Player A goes to third
Player C hits a sac fly

Player A gets a run, Player C gets an RBI, Player B gets neither.

So you are saying that runs and RBI make up the massive difference in rate stats?

I will tell you that Ortiz was ranked 3rd in my team independent analysis...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

1. Personally I don't think it should matter for MVP
2. I was responding to your list of top offensive players, not your MVP vote. I don't think Ortiz should be a top MVP candidate.
3. So you think the difference in team dependent stats outweigh the difference in team independent stats?

In my analysis their are 5 factors all weighted differently

1. Team independent stats
2. Team dependent stats
3. Games played
4. Playoffs
5. defense

Ortiz was ranked 3rd in team independent, but 17th in team dependent...

 

[soxfan1468927]

I will tell you that Ortiz was ranked 3rd in my team independent analysis...

In my analysis their are 5 factors all weighted differently

1. Team independent stats
2. Team dependent stats
3. Games played
4. Playoffs
5. defense

Ortiz was ranked 3rd in team independent, but 17th in team dependent...

I was responding to your post where you specifically said defense and playoffs were not counted

 

[soxfan1468927]

Where is Encarnacion ranked in team independent and team dependent stats?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I was responding to your post where you specifically said defense and playoffs were not counted

I understand, but the OFFENSE only would have been the first 3 categories... where he only ranks high in one... Problem with being DH, is that you will miss more games than other positions... and that certainly is a factor...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Where is Encarnacion ranked in team independent and team dependent stats?

15th in team independent and 5th in team dependent...

Do remember that this was a couple days ago... so things might have changed a little...

and I am not opposed to editing some formulas if needed...

 

[soxfan1468927]

15th in team independent and 5th in team dependent...

Do remember that this was a couple days ago... so things might have changed a little...

and I am not opposed to editing some formulas if needed...

I would say that if someone is 3rd in team independent stats and 17th in team dependent stats, while another is 15th in team independent and 5th in team dependent, the first player is better.

Only thing Encarnacion has over Ortiz is 19 more runs, 5 more RBI, 6 more HRs, and 9 more games played. Ortiz has him by a wide margin in everything else. The point of the game is to help your team win, not score runs and drive in runs. As there are other ways to contribute to a victory that doesn't include runs and RBI. Encarnacion has come to bat with 53 more runners on base than Ortiz, and Ortiz drives in a higher percentage of those runners than Encarnacion.

Ortiz has the 4th highest WPA in the AL, while Encarnacion has the 33rd highest. That is a team dependent stat in the sense that a big hit in a close game is more valuable than a big hit in a blowout. This is due largely to the fact Encarnacion is hitting just .245 with RISP (64th in the AL out of 84 qualified hitters) while Ortiz is hitting .357 (4th in the AL). Ortiz also leads the league in BA with runners on base, while Encarnacion is 39th.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I would say that if someone is 3rd in team independent stats and 17th in team dependent stats, while another is 15th in team independent and 5th in team dependent, the first player is better.

Only thing Encarnacion has over Ortiz is 19 more runs, 5 more RBI, 6 more HRs, and 9 more games played. Ortiz has him by a wide margin in everything else. The point of the game is to help your team win, not score runs and drive in runs. As there are other ways to contribute to a victory that doesn't include runs and RBI. Encarnacion has come to bat with 53 more runners on base than Ortiz, and Ortiz drives in a higher percentage of those runners than Encarnacion.

Ortiz has the 4th highest WPA in the AL, while Encarnacion has the 33rd highest. That is a team dependent stat in the sense that a big hit in a close game is more valuable than a big hit in a blowout. This is due largely to the fact Encarnacion is hitting just .245 with RISP (64th in the AL out of 84 qualified hitters) while Ortiz is hitting .357 (4th in the AL). Ortiz also leads the league in BA with runners on base, while Encarnacion is 39th.

I actually thought of a way to improve my team dependent stat, and by doing it it would help Ortiz out... so maybe when all is said and done he will make my top 7 offensive hitters...

But again, I did include Games played into my total offense analysis... And this will always hurt a DH...

 

[navamind]

lol

 

[soxfan1468927]

I actually thought of a way to improve my team dependent stat, and by doing it it would help Ortiz out... so maybe when all is said and done he will make my top 7 offensive hitters...

But again, I did include Games played into my total offense analysis... And this will always hurt a DH...

My main point is having Encarnacion ahead of him. And Encarnacion is a DH most of the time. I think Ortiz is around 5th or 6th offensively this year when you include base running.

And sure you can include games played, I respect that. But in 70 of Encarnacion's games, he's had a negative WPA. Ortiz has 58 games. So while Encarnacion has 9 extra games played, he has 12 more games where he produced a negative WPA.

If Ortiz played 9 extra games, and went 0-36, his BA would still be 27 points above Encarnacion, OBP would be 21 points ahead, and his slugging would be 35 points ahead.