Adrian Peterson watch

[Trudem]

When the union strikes to force the tyrant out, or at least to abide by the rules they collectively bargained, let alone the laws of the land, they won't be making sqwat

agreed but that wont be right now IMO

 

[TREFF]

No not "right now", but it'll be threatened well before 2015 gets started

 

[leftypower]

The court of public opinion is where he has been crucified. In our legal system he received a misdemeanor yet is losing an entire season. Something about that is that wrong. With that said, the owners are making too much money while Goodell is the Commish so I dont see any changes in the near future.

But yet Peterson hasn't lost a penny of his millions to do nothing of benefit to the team (owner). .... they are eating that.

 

[TREFF]

But yet Peterson hasn't lost a penny of his millions to do nothing of benefit to the team (owner). .... they are eating that.

Same for what's his name in Carolina

 

[Chef99]

But yet Peterson hasn't lost a penny of his millions to do nothing of benefit to the team (owner). .... they are eating that.

C'mon, now...he lost 4 grand for what he did to the kid. :rollseyes:

I wonder if he just whipped it out of his wallet and paid the clerk on the spot?

But I digress...he does lose something like 4.25 mil for the rest of this season.

 

[wilwhite]

Winners and Losers:

The Vikings win... they don't have to deal with the headache (that's at least one ownership group who will feel Goodell did good).

AP loses... he'll undoubtedly need a new contract from somebody for 2015 (if Goodell graces him with the ability to play), without having had a chance to prove that he's still got it on the field. Plus he loses (at least) six weeks' pay.

NFLPA wins... they have a bonafide villain to rally against and will get tons of unquestioned support from their ranks.

Commissioner's Exempt List loses... players facing legal trouble won't accept being placed on it.

"Cleanliness of the Shield" wins... however much people complain about the process, what will be remembered years from now is that players did bad things and the league made them pay.

Chance of Better Policy (Including Having A Neutral Arbitrator Included in the CBA) wins... the league can probably (absurdly) get something back in return for this, and the NFLPA can claim it as a big victory. The owners probably want to decouple this stuff from the Commissioner's responsibilities anyway.

Goodell wins... he's taking a bullet for the Vikings, and presumably he took a bullet for the Ravens.

NFL Relationship with Sponsors wins... by eliminating the appearance of Bad Apples in conjunction with their products. Sponsors don't give a squat about due process or legal skirmishes between the league and the NFLPA. They just don't want a close-up of AP before they run a recruiting ad.

Goodell (next time a star player gets in trouble) loses: because without The List he may not be able to keep the next target of public wrath off the field - and will therefore fail in his attempt to protect the owners (and/or the sponsors).

The Concept of Due Process loses... because it's once again revealed to be a tool of convenience in the service of other interests.

 

[Trudem]

But yet Peterson hasn't lost a penny of his millions to do nothing of benefit to the team (owner). .... they are eating that.

He lost alot of endorsement money but I get what you are saying

 

[TREFF]

He lost alot of endorsement money but I get what you are saying

He was gonna lose that regardless. His monetary losses will only ahem from the fine, the suspension, and the big one, and why I feel what Goodell is doing is illegal, future earnings potential.

Edited:scratch that. ..ONE of the reasons why I feel what Goodell is doing is illegal.. biggest reason being violating his own CBA which is a big federal labor law no-no

 

[wilwhite]

Goodell's letter was pretty paternalizing and dickish.

However, this:

While an adult may have a number of options when confronted with abuse -- to flee, to fight back, or to seek help from law enforcement -- none of those options is realistically available to a four-year old child.

is good to have out there, dickish or not.

 

[leftypower]

He was gonna lose that regardless. His monetary losses will only ahem from the fine, the suspension, and the big one, and why I feel what Goodell is doing is illegal, future earnings potential.

Edited:scratch that. ..ONE of the reasons why I feel what Goodell is doing is illegal.. biggest reason being violating his own CBA which is a big federal labor law no-no

I get that you feel 'rights' have been violated as well as the CBA. As far as the 'rights' part goes, I do not disagree. No one should be crucified based upon public opinion, simply because most people do not have a clue as to the facts, law, or even good common sense. I've said time and time again - if they commit a crime then the legal system should be the one dishing out the punishment - yet like any company/corporation in the US, the NFL has its own conduct rules. If you break them then the company determines the punishment. If there are set guidelines then they must be followed.

Now as for the CBA, if in fact there is a violation, that is what the players union with all their lawyers are for. But remember all those guys involved with advising the commish are as well. Between them all someone should know what the actual rules are. I do not profess to be one, so I'll just have to wait and see.

 

[TREFF]

I get that you feel 'rights' have been violated as well as the CBA. As far as the 'rights' part goes, I do not disagree. No one should be crucified based upon public opinion, simply because most people do not have a clue as to the facts, law, or even good common sense. I've said time and time again - if they commit a crime then the legal system should be the one dishing out the punishment - yet like any company/corporation in the US, the NFL has its own conduct rules. If you break them then the company determines the punishment. If there are set guidelines then they must be followed.

Now as for the CBA, if in fact there is a violation, that is what the players union with all their lawyers are for. But remember all those guys involved with advising the commish are as well. Between them all someone should know what the actual rules are. I do not profess to be one, so I'll just have to wait and see.

True. . My opinion is that there are black and white rules stating what offense gets which punishment. . And he's not following those which were agreed upon., to me that's a big time snafu. Hasn't with Gordon, Rice, and now Peterson

 

[wilwhite]

I don't think Goodell exactly violated the CBA anywhere - there are no set disciplines in the personal conduct policy. His own "six games for domestic abuse" really isn't anything more than a public statement.

The policy says the Commissioner will have full authority to impose discipline as warranted. Discipline can be fines, suspension or banishment, with no guidelines, rules or limits specified.

Technically it doesn't even say he can't change his mind (like he did with Rice) and punish you some more - and the CBA only says you can't be punished by both the team and the league, not that you can't be punished bizarrely and repeatedly by an all-powerful Commissioner.

Why the NFLPA ever agreed to this crap is beyond me. They can still argue that Goodell is being capricious and inconsistent and hope that gets them somewhere. And a double punishment, even if not specifically excluded in the agreement, is probably out of bounds under more general legal principles and Rice should get that wiped out.

That said, the one thing that is clearly wrong is that he wasn't with the Vikings between the resolution of his case and the imposition of the punishment. There's just no explaining that part away. But nobody's going to start a lawsuit just for that. He was paid that week. What would the damages for one week of not being on the field be?

And if AP trusted anything from the league that wasn't in writing, well, he was a fool, and the NFLPA should have looked out for this THEN, rather than stating that AP's time on The List wasn't discipline.

It's dawning on me that the NFLPA is run by buffoons.

 

[TREFF]

It's dawning on me that the NFLPA is run by buffoons.

No doubts and no arguments there

 

[tlance]

The court of public opinion is where he has been crucified. In our legal system he received a misdemeanor yet is losing an entire season. Something about that is that wrong. With that said, the owners are making too much money while Goodell is the Commish so I dont see any changes in the near future.

I have zero issue with Goodell's decision, in fact, I applaud it.

Jameis Winston may have raped a girl and he won the freaking Heisman! I am still sick to my stomach about that. Who cares if there is proof. Don't take away his liberty without a proper conviction, but for heaven sakes, don't give him he most prestigious award in college football either!

I don't care if AP was convicted or not. He willfully injured his 4 year old son and the NFL should absolutely act to make sure he gets punished. Whether or not a Texas court found AP guilty of a felony should not limit the NFL ability to discipline him.

This I know for sure. If I whipped my kid like AP did, I would be fired on the spot. My employer would not wait for the legal process, nor would most of yours. Anyone claiming that AP is a victim here needs to take some time and really think about this, and not just from a fantasy football prospective.

 

[wilwhite]

This I know for sure. If I whipped my kid like AP did, I would be fired on the spot. My employer would not wait for the legal process, nor would most of yours.

That shouldn't be true. When my wife was a kid she and her brothers and sisters got whipped with a strip of tire and were made to walk on their knees on hard corn. Her parents losing their livelihood would not have helped any. (If you're working with kids, though, yeah, go find another job.)

This can disqualify him from being a spokesperson for a product, and that's half of what the NFL is, so a suspension is understandable.

But no, a good regional sales manager or java programmer isn't going to lose his job because he was arrested for whipping his kid, although he might be strongly encouraged to attend sensitivity training or something.

Also, the level of evil here is pretty low. It's not like AP tried to cover up the welts and told his kid to lie about it. He was slightly troubled about having hurt his kid, but not about how he'd done it. He thought what he did was okay; I doubt he thinks so now.

 

[TREFF]

I have zero issue with Goodell's decision, in fact, I applaud it.

Jameis Winston may have raped a girl and he won the freaking Heisman! I am still sick to my stomach about that. Who cares if there is proof. Don't take away his liberty without a proper conviction, but for heaven sakes, don't give him he most prestigious award in college football either!

I don't care if AP was convicted or not. He willfully injured his 4 year old son and the NFL should absolutely act to make sure he gets punished. Whether or not a Texas court found AP guilty of a felony should not limit the NFL ability to discipline him.

This I know for sure. If I whipped my kid like AP did, I would be fired on the spot. My employer would not wait for the legal process, nor would most of yours. Anyone claiming that AP is a victim here needs to take some time and really think about this, and not just from a fantasy football prospective.

What's really hard for me. . Is that from a personal, emotional point of view, I %150 agree with everything you said.
But I'm also big on people not abusing power, or bending or breaking rules, and must of all making them up as they go. The difference between AP, or any player in the NFL, and guys like you and me is that they have a union (which by the way is another thing I hate. . Unions, but that's a different debate for a different forum), and that union has an agreed upon set of rules to follow when disciplining or firing people, and they should be followed. . And I don't think they have been, in any if these recent cases. A private employer, with no labor union to deal with, yes absolutely I agree they can and rightly so, run their business however they see fit.

The whole situation pisses me off from multiple different angles, and I hate sounding like I'm defending a child abuser, when that's the last thing I'm trying to do. Trying to point out the ridiculousness of what Goodell is doing in general

 

[tlance]

That shouldn't be true. When my wife was a kid she and her brothers and sisters got whipped with a strip of tire and were made to walk on their knees on hard corn. Her parents losing their livelihood would not have helped any. (If you're working with kids, though, yeah, go find another job.)

This can disqualify him from being a spokesperson for a product, and that's half of what the NFL is, so a suspension is understandable.

But no, a good regional sales manager or java programmer isn't going to lose his job because he was arrested for whipping his kid, although he might be strongly encouraged to attend sensitivity training or something.

Also, the level of evil here is pretty low. It's not like AP tried to cover up the welts and told his kid to lie about it. He was slightly troubled about having hurt his kid, but not about how he'd done it. He thought what he did was okay; I doubt he thinks so now.

That was a totally different era. I agree with what you are saying for the most part. While a java programmer's domestic issues may not affect his ability to do his job, if the incident was made public, then the company might still choose to go another direction to avoid the public relations hit. I do not think they would be wrong to do so either.

By the way, I am a teacher, so maybe that jades my perspective a little. Still though, any individual with a high profile job needs to understand that their actions will be exposed to the public and they should be held to a higher standard. They certainly get paid enough for their employers to have high expectations for off-field behavior.

 

[wilwhite]

Still though, any individual with a high profile job needs to understand that their actions will be exposed to the public and they should be held to a higher standard.

I think that's why, in addition to piling on AP, some of us are making a point of piling on Goodell. There are very few people in an executive position in this country whose actions are visible to the public. He is one of them, and he's setting an atrocious standard.

 

[tlance]

I think that's why, in addition to piling on AP, some of us are making a point of piling on Goodell. There are very few people in an executive position in this country whose actions are visible to the public. He is one of them, and he's setting an atrocious standard.

I don't think that is true.

I don't have an executive position by any stretch, but I see articles about teacher F ups every day. Just because one don't have a high profile job does not proclude one from making a high profile mistake in today's social media driven world.

 

[leftypower]

I think that's why, in addition to piling on AP, some of us are making a point of piling on Goodell. There are very few people in an executive position in this country whose actions are visible to the public. He is one of them, and he's setting an atrocious standard.

I firmly believe the way the Rice case was handled (in the beginning) has a direct effect on the way AP is being handled now. In the court of public opinion the league was far too lenient, prompting a response to 'correct' the mistake. In that case the league screwed up. But lets not forget that the front man (commissioner/corporate president/etc) for a multi-billion $$ corporation does not make any such decisions without the advise of his legal staff. From that prospective the entire league front office screwed up. I'm not defending him, but supporting your first sentence. ...