A Message From Clay Helton:

[trojanfan12]

Maybe you don't remember what Alabama was like in the years before Saban?

Yes I do. They were like USC with Hackett. Very talented, but had a shitty coach. Pete Carroll was able to turn things around very quickly because he actually knew how to use the talent USC had. Saban did the same at Bama.

Maybe you don't remember that Alabama went 12-2 in Saban's 2nd season?

 

[trojanfan12]

We didn't have talent when Saban came. I did this on another forum when comparing Kirby Smart @ Georgia this year, I'll see if I can hunt it up.

We were basically all 3 stars and the 4 years prior to Saban netted less than a handful of 4 and 5 stars. Saban's first class immediately doubled the higher rated recruits.

But at any rate, Saban made a huge impact on talent.

Then how did you go 12-2 in his 2nd season? Saban made the same difference on Bama's talent as Pete Carroll did on USC's...he actually knew how to coach the talent that was there. Programs like Bama and USC always have talent, it's a matter of whether or not they have a guy who can actually coach.

 

[4down20]

Then how did you go 12-2 in his 2nd season?

Here's my post on another forum. As you can see, in Saban's 1st year we had 10 4 star players and 1 5 star player, and 4 of those 4 star were from his first partial class.

Georgia has been pulling in top10 classes for years.

Alabama was not pulling in top10 classes.

It's not just about the best players, it's about the depth and such.

As I recall, Saban did a lot of house cleaning in 2007.

Alabama recruiting:

2007: #13 (but this is misleading, because it counts 31 and we only really had 24, our average was really closer to about #25 - 4 4 stars, rest 3 stars)

2006: #15 (1 5 star, 2 4 stars, rest 3 stars).

2005: #21 (3 4 star, rest 3 stars).

2004: #30 (1 4 star, rest 3 stars).

Now lets do Georgia:

2016: #8 (3 5 stars, 10 4 stars, rest 3 stars)
2015: #5 (2 5 stars, 12 4 stars, rest 3 stars)
2014: #8 (3 5 stars, 10 4 stars, rest 3 stars)
2013: #12 (15 4 stars, rest 3 stars).

So lets tally this up.

Saban inherited(or got in his 1st class):

5 star - 1
4 star - 10

Kirby inherited:

5 star - 8
4 star - 47

To answer your question specifically:

The 2008 class had: 3 5 stars and 18 4 stars.

 

[4down20]

As far as Helton goes btw - he's a new HC, it makes sense that it would take him a little time to get adjusted to the role since it's his first job, regardless of talent. Same goes for Kirby in my example as well. It's unrealistic to expect a 1st time coach to come in and make the playoffs even with lots of talent.

 

[trojanfan12]

Here's my post on another forum. As you can see, in Saban's 1st year we had 10 4 star players and 1 5 star player, and 4 of those 4 star were from his first partial class.



To answer your question specifically:

The 2008 class had: 3 5 stars and 18 4 stars.

Hard to go 12-2 with freshmen. Imo, the difference at Bama was the same as USC...the coach. Of course, both Saban and Carroll increased the overall number of 4 and 5 stars (which is how they sustained their success), but there had to already be talent on the teams for them to turn things around so quickly.

What people forget about Helton's situation is that USC has very good frontline talent, but because of the sanctions, we're not as deep as we were before the sanctions, especially in the defensive front 7. It's why I've said all along that I wished the game vs. Bama was next year. I think it would be a much better game. We weren't close to ready for Bama this year and it showed.

 

[trojanfan12]

As far as Helton goes btw - he's a new HC, it makes sense that it would take him a little time to get adjusted to the role since it's his first job, regardless of talent. Same goes for Kirby in my example as well. It's unrealistic to expect a 1st time coach to come in and make the playoffs even with lots of talent.

Agree. It wasn't just a new head coach. It was new coaches and even the couple of coaches who stayed, were in new positions. Plus, he's been completely changing the pass happy style that we had under Kiffin and Sark, back to the more physical, run first style that USC has always had when we've been most successful.

This is a much more balanced team than we had under the last 2 coaches.

 

[4down20]

Hard to go 12-2 with freshmen. Imo, the difference at Bama was the same as USC...the coach. Of course, both Saban and Carroll increased the overall number of 4 and 5 stars (which is how they sustained their success), but there had to already be talent on the teams for them to turn things around so quickly.

What people forget about Helton's situation is that USC has very good frontline talent, but because of the sanctions, we're not as deep as we were before the sanctions, especially in the defensive front 7. It's why I've said all along that I wished the game vs. Bama was next year. I think it would be a much better game. We weren't close to ready for Bama this year and it showed.

We are still doing it with freshmen all these years later. So far this year we've played 13 true freshmen(13 was after 4 games, it could be more now, not sure).

And they are playing in major roles. A few of them starters or major contributors:

Positions where they start or get major playing time as true freshman: QB, RB(x2), WR, RT, DB, LB, DL, TE.

 

[trojanfan12]

Very similar to the Pete Carroll hiring.

I'm not ready to say he's Pete Carrollv2.0, but so far, there are some similarities. Carroll started out 2-5 and closed the regular season on a 4 game win streak. Helton started out 1-3 and is currently on a 6 game win streak.

Also, both hirings were largely panned by the "experts" as USC "settling" when they could have gotten a "name coach."

Funny thing is, the most successful coaches in USC history (McKay, Robinson and Carroll) had never been college head coaches before USC hired them. Just like Helton.

 

[trojanfan12]

We are still doing it with freshmen all these years later. So far this year we've played 13 true freshmen(13 was after 4 games, it could be more now, not sure).

And they are playing in major roles. A few of them starters or major contributors:

Positions where they start or get major playing time as true freshman: QB, RB(x2), WR, RT, DB, LB, DL, TE.

Very similar to Carroll. He did rely on freshmen and used them throughout his tenure, but there still had to be some talent on the roster for a turnaround to happen that fast. It's not a knock on either coach to say there was already some talent there. In fact, it's a compliment that shows just how bad their predecessors were.

Part of the attraction for players under coaches like Saban and Carroll is that the best guy is going to play, regardless of whether or not he's a true freshman or a 5th year senior.

 

[trojanfan12]

By all means, toot your special snowflake 7-3 horn. I was unaware that the aspirations of the Trojans faithful were so low that beating Washington was now the pinnacle.

All kidding aside, I'm not all that excited about 7-3, but considering the mess Sark made, what Bama did to us and how bad things looked when we were sitting at 1-3, to beat the #4 team in the country and be on a 6 game win streak is pretty nice.

I don't know if Helton is the right guy or not, it's his first season as a head coach, but thing look a whole lot better than they did just a few weeks ago and no one is calling for Helton's head anymore.

I've said all along that USC won't be "back" this year. Next year will go a long way to showing if Helton was the right guy or not.

 

[Smart]

I like Clay Helton and said at the time that he would bring stability and a solid team culture, but you all are nuts with the Carroll comparison. Helton's not an innovator on either side of the ball, nor is he a guru in terms of motivation.

Helton's teams will consistently win 9-10 games, with a team or two in title contention. He's not gonna create a dynasty.

 

[TROJAN-MAN]

I like Clay Helton and said at the time that he would bring stability and a solid team culture, but you all are nuts with the Carroll comparison. Helton's not an innovator on either side of the ball, nor is he a guru in terms of motivation.

Helton's teams will consistently win 9-10 games, with a team or two in title contention. He's not gonna create a dynasty.

Time will tell

 

[jjc2009]

A message from Brian Kelly. Don't bend me over too hard Clay.

 

[trojanfan12]

I like Clay Helton and said at the time that he would bring stability and a solid team culture, but you all are nuts with the Carroll comparison. Helton's not an innovator on either side of the ball, nor is he a guru in terms of motivation.

Helton's teams will consistently win 9-10 games, with a team or two in title contention. He's not gonna create a dynasty.

Maybe, maybe not. Right now and for the next couple of seasons, having an actual adult in charge of the program is a good thing.

As for the Carroll comparisons, there are some similarities, but it's too early to tell. Carroll wasn't an innovator either and the hiring was widely criticized at the time. 7 games in, when USC was 2-5, it was looking like he wouldn't last the season.

Then, when USC started winning and competing for NC's every year, Carroll was suddenly an "innovator" and a "genius hire." Funny how it works like that. lol

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Yes I do. They were like USC with Hackett. Very talented, but had a shitty coach. Pete Carroll was able to turn things around very quickly because he actually knew how to use the talent USC had. Saban did the same at Bama.

Maybe you don't remember that Alabama went 12-2 in Saban's 2nd season?

Yup, they did. But you're fooling yourself if you think you've hired a Nick Saban or Pete Carroll. Alabama also had no where near the talent back then that it does now.

 

[Rolltide94]

Winner of gheyest post of the day. Congrats.

LOL, you write a post basically telling everyone to suck it because you are 7-3 and I'm the ghey one. Enjoy the Kraft Dinner Fight Hunger Potato Bowl.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yup, they did. But you're fooling yourself if you think you've hired a Nick Saban or Pete Carroll. Alabama also had no where near the talent back then that it does now.

You do know that USC wasn't exactly "loaded" this year, right? We have the frontline talent to compete with anyone, but we don't have the depth yet. We are particularly thin in the defensive front 7.

Also, Helton has been completely changing this teams style of play from what it was under Kiffin and Sark.

And who said we've hired Saban or Carroll? All anyone has said is that there are similarities between Carroll's hiring and first season and Helton's. Every Trojan on here has said that it's too early to know exactly what we have in Helton.

You really should start paying attention to what you read before you respond to posts.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm the ghey one.

I'm glad you agree. It's 2016, be who you are. No judgement here.

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL, you write a post basically telling everyone to suck it because you are 7-3 and I'm the ghey one. Enjoy the Kraft Dinner Fight Hunger Potato Bowl.

And ftr, I didn't tell anyone to suck it because we're 7-3. I'm just having fun because we beat the #4 team in the country and it's starting to look like Helton may actually be a better coach than most gave him credit for.

Is he the right guy? I have no idea, we're only 10 games into his tenure as head coach. It's going to be at least another season or 2 before we have any idea if he's the right guy or not. For now, after the last 2 coaches...I'm happy with Helton.

I don't know if I'll still be happy with him at this time next year, but right now, I have no complaints.

 

[wazzu31]

Leach > Helton.