2018 Roster Expectations

[SFGRTB]

Random thought..... I wonder if the Giants' aggressive pursuit of Stanton has anything to do with hoping to jump into the Ohtani sweepstakes.

That's a pretty good pitch to him IMO.

"Hey we just went out and got the MVP from this past season, and we have a former MVP catcher already on the roster, and a former World Series MVP pitcher. Wanna join?"

 

[calsnowskier]

Random thought..... I wonder if the Giants' aggressive pursuit of Stanton has anything to do with hoping to jump into the Ohtani sweepstakes.

That's a pretty good pitch to him IMO.

"Hey we just went out and got the MVP from this past season, and we have a former MVP catcher already on the roster, and a former World Series MVP pitcher. Wanna join?"

If they can get both, tha it almost doesn’t matter what Stanton cost ($$ wise), because Ohtani SHOULD offset any financials.

And you know that Bum is itching to have Ohtani in the same clubhouse as him. That would be wild.

 

[SFGRTB]

If they can get both, tha it almost doesn’t matter what Stanton cost ($$ wise), because Ohtani SHOULD offset any financials.

And you know that Bum is itching to have Ohtani in the same clubhouse as him. That would be wild.

Exactly. Ohtani would get a $200M deal if he was on the open market, so Stanton+Ohtani at $300M.... sign me up!

 

[LHG]

Random thought..... I wonder if the Giants' aggressive pursuit of Stanton has anything to do with hoping to jump into the Ohtani sweepstakes.

That's a pretty good pitch to him IMO.

"Hey we just went out and got the MVP from this past season, and we have a former MVP catcher already on the roster, and a former World Series MVP pitcher. Wanna join?"

But unless the Giants' FO has played their hand close to their chest with Ohtani, much unlike they have with Stanton, I don't think they are seriously considering this. However, maybe if they are able to quickly trade off Cueto after getting Stanton, then I could see them lining up for Ohtani as Cueto's replacement.

 

[calsnowskier]

But unless the Giants' FO has played their hand close to their chest with Ohtani, much unlike they have with Stanton, I don't think they are seriously considering this. However, maybe if they are able to quickly trade off Cueto after getting Stanton, then I could see them lining up for Ohtani as Cueto's replacement.

Ohtani would be essentially free. The story is that he basically does not care about money Andy just want a good situation.

Ohtani and Cueto are not linked in any way what-so-ever.

 

[LHG]

Ohtani would be essentially free. The story is that he basically does not care about money Andy just want a good situation.

Ohtani and Cueto are not linked in any way what-so-ever.

My thought about Ceuto and Ohtani is the Giants freeing up money to get closer to the threshold, and, in doing so, can focus more of their energy on wooing Ohtani. I understand that Ohtani won't cost much, so trading Cueto is not a prerequisite. What an opportunity he presents to whichever lucky club gets him (assuming doing both pitching and hitting doesn't make the entire experiment a disaster).

 

[msgkings322]

The problem is, if the "just add Stanton" return to contention doesn't work, Evans probably won't be around in 5 years and the new FO will be groaning about the payroll. Worse, with all that money going toward the big league payroll, there won't be much invested in development.
I really think that the payroll is already bloated, too much for there to be a true contender in 2018 or 2019. Adding Stanton means no more free agents (other than bargain bin types) and the Giants will be shipping others off in trades. The barren farm makes for some truly outside the box type trades. Wonder if the Giants will swing them. I just hope I'm really wrong and the Giants make sure to call me out during the 2018 World Series victory parade.

The thing is, let's say they don't add Stanton. Haven't we all agreed they will not do a Astros/White Sox teardown? So you basically just muddle along some more. What's the point of that?

I'm fine with the crazy gambles being considered. Try to win the next 3 years. We already won enough rings for a lifetime, let's have some fun. If it doesn't workout, oh well. Again, if a total teardown/suck for 3 years option was available maybe that would be better. But it's not.

 

[Hangman]

We gonna get Stanton

 

[LHG]

The thing is, let's say they don't add Stanton. Haven't we all agreed they will not do a Astros/White Sox teardown? So you basically just muddle along some more. What's the point of that?

I'm fine with the crazy gambles being considered. Try to win the next 3 years. We already won enough rings for a lifetime, let's have some fun. If it doesn't workout, oh well. Again, if a total teardown/suck for 3 years option was available maybe that would be better. But it's not.

I just don't see much more than a fringe team with Stanton, barring everything possibly going right. To me, Stanton represents muddling along, and both delays the inevitable (rebuild) and cripples the team down the line (no room in payroll).

 

[msgkings322]

I just don't see much more than a fringe team with Stanton, barring everything possibly going right. To me, Stanton represents muddling along, and both delays the inevitable (rebuild) and cripples the team down the line (no room in payroll).

I guess my model of crazy gamble is Stanton + another piece or two. Like really do it. Sorta like (not at all closely) 1993, bringing in Bonds...

 

[calsnowskier]

I guess my model of crazy gamble is Stanton + another piece or two. Like really do it. Sorta like (not at all closely) 1993, bringing in Bonds...

Bonds was the 3rd MAJOR bat added to an already potent lineup, and dual-Aced rotation. And he had MAJOR history with the org and the area.

Stanton would be the first MAJOR bat in the lineup (granted, with an equally impressive multi-Aced rotation).

I see the situation you are describing more akin to the dogs of 5 or 6 years ago when they went all Yankees-West on the NLW.

 

[msgkings322]

Bonds was the 3rd MAJOR bat added to an already potent lineup, and dual-Aced rotation. And he had MAJOR history with the org and the area.

Stanton would be the first MAJOR bat in the lineup (granted, with an equally impressive multi-Aced rotation).

I see the situation you are describing more akin to the dogs of 5 or 6 years ago when they went all Yankees-West on the NLW.

Just reminded me that's all. But sure, let's be Dodgers 2.0, why the hell not?

 

[LHG]

Just reminded me that's all. But sure, let's be Dodgers 2.0, why the hell not?

I was thinking about how the Dodgers picked up a bunch of big contracts off other teams a few years ago. Their ownership was brand new and publicly dedicated themselves to doing everything possible to build a good ballclub. They also choose to emphasize player development and worked out trades that kept their best prospects in the organization.

This ownership isn't new and has never shown signs that they'd be willing to bust the payroll for a bunch of players (I'm talking beyond Stanton). In fact, the rumors have been that they will reduce payroll in other areas after acquiring Stanton, i.e. Cueto traded to provide relief. That kind of kills the dual aced staff, unless they do land Ohtani. Also, there's no indicator that they will put the same emphasis on building the farm up. I think the Dodgers were competitive, got within a game of winning it all, not from acquiring high priced players but from investment in and patience with international signings and domestic player development.

 

[LHG]

Just reminded me that's all. But sure, let's be Dodgers 2.0, why the hell not?

Can the Giants really rebuild in one offseason?

 

[msgkings322]

Can the Giants really rebuild in one offseason?

So what's the alternative? Don't say teardown because that's not on the menu.

 

[calsnowskier]

I was thinking about how the Dodgers picked up a bunch of big contracts off other teams a few years ago. Their ownership was brand new and publicly dedicated themselves to doing everything possible to build a good ballclub. They also choose to emphasize player development and worked out trades that kept their best prospects in the organization.

This ownership isn't new and has never shown signs that they'd be willing to bust the payroll for a bunch of players (I'm talking beyond Stanton). In fact, the rumors have been that they will reduce payroll in other areas after acquiring Stanton, i.e. Cueto traded to provide relief. That kind of kills the dual aced staff, unless they do land Ohtani. Also, there's no indicator that they will put the same emphasis on building the farm up. I think the Dodgers were competitive, got within a game of winning it all, not from acquiring high priced players but from investment in and patience with international signings and domestic player development.

The Dodgers have always placed a priority on international amateur FAs while the Giants have, with a few exceptions, punted that aspect.

The Dodgers have gotten credit for doing great in the draft, but have they? At least moreso than the Giants? The Giants got Belt in the 5th round. Crawford in the 4th. Panik was a late 1st. Wilson was something like a 15th rounder and Romo was in the late 20s (28?).

But if the Giants want to rebuild on the fly, they HAVE to add the international market to their arsenal. They cannot live on the draft alone while picking in the back half. You NEED your Posey’s, Bumgarners and Lincecums to anchor your roster (or your Abreus or Puigs).

 

[LHG]

So what's the alternative? Don't say teardown because that's not on the menu.

This a forum filled with fringe lunatics, we can pick whichever option we think is best. I mean, we all know the route the FO is going (at least we all think we know). It doesn't matter what I write here, the FO won't change their perspective.

I really do think a rebuild is the only way this team can get competitive again. The salaries on this team makes it hard to get competitive without going way over the threshold, like the author of the article I referenced mentioned. Maybe the other alternative is somehow leveraging all the high priced talent on this team into trades for major league ready talent that is way cheaper and hope they all gel together quickly with the NL MVP and the Japanese two way sensation. Or hope that Crawford, Cueto, Bumgarner, Samardzija, Moore, Belt, Pence, Span, Dee Gordon, Sandoval and the entire bullpen bounce back and/or have career years.

 

[LHG]

The Dodgers have always placed a priority on international amateur FAs while the Giants have, with a few exceptions, punted that aspect.

The Dodgers have gotten credit for doing great in the draft, but have they? At least moreso than the Giants? The Giants got Belt in the 5th round. Crawford in the 4th. Panik was a late 1st. Wilson was something like a 15th rounder and Romo was in the late 20s (28?).

But if the Giants want to rebuild on the fly, they HAVE to add the international market to their arsenal. They cannot live on the draft alone while picking in the back half. You NEED your Posey’s, Bumgarners and Lincecums to anchor your roster (or your Abreus or Puigs).

Going back to 2008, the Dodgers have picked up Dee Gordon (2008, 4th, and later flipped for Enrique Hernandez and Austin Barnes), Joc Pederson (2010, 11th), Corey Seager (2011, 1st) and Cody Bellinger (2013, 4th).
Their 2009 and 2011 drafts are arguably worse than the Giants' 2007 draft. Only one player has even made the big leagues from their 2014 draft and none from 2015, 2016 or 2017 yet. I think the Dodgers have built their farm more on international signings and smart trades for prospects.

 

[LHG]

Looks like the Giants were the first to meet with Ohtani - Giants Become First Known Team To Meet With Shohei Ohtani
With Ohtani officially available, Giants ready to make their pitch.

Hopefully, they made a great impression. I hope he doesn't pick the least likely team, the Padres, due to their location, small market and opportunity to play both sides. However, I would much prefer that to him going a little further north of there with the Dodgers.

 

[calsnowskier]

Apparently he wants to be the only Japanese player on his team. So maybe my assumption yesterday that the Ichiro effect would play was wrong.