2014-15 Around the League Thread

[MHSL82]

Thanks.

It was neat, but a lot of guards (and some bigs) make circus shots. Probably a few every week.

Thanks, though, still liked it.

The title isn't really accurate, as most of these are just good shots, not circus shots... But look at 0:40, 2:44, and 3:44. 3:44 is my favorite and I remember watching that shot.

 

[MHSL82]

James Michael McAdoo @jamesmcadoo

And Steph aint believe me when I told him we were gonna combine for 45 tonight... MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

Portland Trail Blazers vs. Golden State Warriors - Box Score - April 09, 2015 - ESPN

I like my humor. His is like mine. So I like his humor.

 

[MHSL82]

I didn't know who I wanted as the MVP this year until now.

Much to your chagrin, @nuraman00, I'm going with Steph Curry.

And no, I don't care about his threes.

I don't care about his 45 points.

And I don't really care about his 10 assists, though I love assists.

I just don't like how Westbrook can shoot 12-36 and get praise, though I do note his assists with a smile. And, of course, I recognize injuries and their mid-season winning with him.

I am not a fan of Harden, for some of the same reasons, being that his points are greatly helped by FTs, often questionable (albeit he did get a no-call one game). Yes, driving to the basket is great and he "deserves" the FTs, I just want to see good shooting. My MVP vote is valuable. Most valuable. And while I don't dislike Harden, I can't find myself liking him. Just can't. Don't know why.

Now, I don't "like" Stephon Curry either, but I find it easier. I know his assists aren't like a traditional point guard, from what you've said before.

I like him deferring while on a hot streak and getting 45 points on 23 shots, making 17 of them, 8 of them deep. That's a trait that I can back.

How to describe Stephen Curry? Steve Kerr uses 'MVP' - Golden State Warriors Blog - ESPN

 

[nuraman00]

I didn't know who I wanted as the MVP this year until now.

Much to your chagrin, @nuraman00, I'm going with Steph Curry.

And no, I don't care about his threes.

I don't care about his 45 points.

And I don't really care about his 10 assists, though I love assists.

I just don't like how Westbrook can shoot 12-36 and get praise, though I do note his assists with a smile. And, of course, I recognize injuries and their mid-season winning with him.

I am not a fan of Harden, for some of the same reasons, being that his points are greatly helped by FTs, often questionable (albeit he did get a no-call one game). Yes, driving to the basket is great and he "deserves" the FTs, I just want to see good shooting. My MVP vote is valuable. Most valuable. And while I don't dislike Harden, I can't find myself liking him. Just can't. Don't know why.

Now, I don't "like" Stephon Curry either, but I find it easier. I know his assists aren't like a traditional point guard, from what you've said before.

I like him deferring while on a hot streak and getting 45 points on 23 shots, making 17 of them, 8 of them deep. That's a trait that I can back.

How to describe Stephen Curry? Steve Kerr uses 'MVP' - Golden State Warriors Blog - ESPN

The more of them that are deep shots, the less impressed I am with the scoring total.

What about Anthony Davis, Chris Paul, Lillard, or James? Where would you rank them on your MVP ballot?

 

[nuraman00]

Now, I don't "like" Stephon Curry either, but I find it easier. I know his assists aren't like a traditional point guard, from what you've said before.

So do you agree his assists aren't like James; Hayward; Paul; Stockton; Payton; Kidd; Rondo; Parker; Andre Miller; Rod Strickland; Terry Porter; Nash?

 

[MHSL82]

So do you agree his assists aren't like James; Hayward; Paul; Stockton; Payton; Kidd; Rondo; Parker; Andre Miller; Rod Strickland; Terry Porter; Nash?

Yes. I also like that he doesn't take 39 shots to make 12 like Westbrook, despite those assists.

 

[MHSL82]

The more of them that are deep shots, the less impressed I am with the scoring total.

What about Anthony Davis, Chris Paul, Lillard, or James? Where would you rank them on your MVP ballot?

I honestly have not paid attention to Paul. Lillard's team isn't great and he's had fewer games I've noticed. James is a MVP-hog shooting worse than his ascending FG% in years' past. Davis has an ugly unibrow on an 8th seed.

 

[nuraman00]

I honestly have not paid attention to Paul. Lillard's team isn't great and he's had fewer games I've noticed. James is a MVP-hog shooting worse than his ascending FG% in years' past. Davis has an ugly unibrow on an 8th seed.

So much do you put into team success?

For Davis, he's averaging 24 points, 10 rebounds, 53% FG, 2 assists, 2.9 blocks, 1.4 steals, 80% FT. Only downside is only 65 games played so far.

He leads the league in PER.

2014-15 NBA 30.8 (1)

 

[nuraman00]

Kings To Sign David Stockton To Multi-Year Deal - RealGM Wiretap

 

[MHSL82]

So much do you put into team success?

For Davis, he's averaging 24 points, 10 rebounds, 53% FG, 2 assists, 2.9 blocks, 1.4 steals, 80% FT. Only downside is only 65 games played so far.

He leads the league in PER.

2014-15 NBA 30.8 (1)

Malone played 82 games, averaged 27.4 points, 9.9 rebounds, 55% FG, 3.9 assists, 0.6 blocks, 1.4 steals, 75.5% FT in his first MVP.

I don't think he deserved the MVP the second time, according to my standards, but there were other times he had better numbers and more value, so I file it under, it's all even.

I'm not saying Davis would be a fraud to be voted in, or that anyone is comparing him to Malone, but Malone's first MVP and wins are what I look for in someone who wins the award. Winning percentage is different, but I don't put that much into MY MVP voting criteria - I'm fine if others do, and Malone's in 1996-97 were probably good numbers relatively (but not the highest). PER is comparable to Davis.

Or it has to be other things like best team - yes, even with help - remove the best and they'd be bad sometimes. When they wouldn't be bad, I'd argue that being out of true contention suffices.

Davis got them to 8th seed in a packed Western Conference. But no one gives the coach any credit, so how bad could the surrounding team be? If it's bad enough to give Davis props, why isn't it bad enough to give the coach props? You saw the poll I'm referring to. Different people voting, but it's a perspective out there.

Frustrates the hell out of me that Duncan can get 21 and 11 and 3 and people are drooling and Malone get 31 one year with more rebounds and fewer blocks and it's all even. Garnett gets 21.7 and 10.4 in Minnesota and WOW! Get more than 24 points and we'll talk. Normally that would count Curry out, but he's on the best freaking team and doing a lot. Take him out and all that help brings them down greater, IMO. Going from 1st to 8th or out of the playoffs is bigger than 8th to out of the playoffs. I don't care for great players on bad teams. I don't. Their year means nothing. Their talent does, bring it to next year, and when your team is built well, you'll get the MVP.

 

[nuraman00]

Malone played 82 games, averaged 27.4 points, 9.9 rebounds, 55% FG, 3.9 assists, 0.6 blocks, 1.4 steals, 75.5% FT in his first MVP.

I don't think he deserved the MVP the second time, according to my standards, but there were other times he had better numbers and more value, so I file it under, it's all even.

I'm not saying Davis would be a fraud to be voted in, or that anyone is comparing him to Malone, but Malone's first MVP and wins are what I look for in someone who wins the award. Winning percentage is different, but I don't put that much into MY MVP voting criteria - I'm fine if others do, and Malone's in 1996-97 were probably good numbers relatively (but not the highest). PER is comparable to Davis.

Or it has to be other things like best team - yes, even with help - remove the best and they'd be bad sometimes. When they wouldn't be bad, I'd argue that being out of true contention suffices.

Davis got them to 8th seed in a packed Western Conference. But no one gives the coach any credit, so how bad could the surrounding team be? If it's bad enough to give Davis props, why isn't it bad enough to give the coach props? You saw the poll I'm referring to. Different people voting, but it's a perspective out there.

Frustrates the hell out of me that Duncan can get 21 and 11 and 3 and people are drooling and Malone get 31 one year with more rebounds and fewer blocks and it's all even. Garnett gets 21.7 and 10.4 in Minnesota and WOW! Get more than 24 points and we'll talk. Normally that would count Curry out, but he's on the best freaking team and doing a lot. Take him out and all that help brings them down greater, IMO. Going from 1st to 8th or out of the playoffs is bigger than 8th to out of the playoffs. I don't care for great players on bad teams. I don't. Their year means nothing. Their talent does, bring it to next year, and when your team is built well, you'll get the MVP.

I don't think the surrounding cast among the Pelicans is bad. Their problem has been injuries.

Over the past 2 years, Evans, Holiday, Gordon, Davis, Asik, and Anderson have barely played together.

Asik, Davis, Gordon, Evans, Holiday have played 9 games together this year. Last year, Asik wasn't on the team, and they brought Evans in and out of the lineup.

To me, their best players have barely played together in past 2 years. Not even the best 4 out of 6 have played much this year (16 games).

To me, Golden State has a lot of talent. Thompson was an All-Star. Iguodala, Lee, Bogut, all good players. Draymond Green will get top DPOY votes. And he averages 8 boards, 3.7 assists, 1.4 3's. Livingston and Barnes are also useful players. With all of that talent, they would still be a top 6 team in the West, if Curry was removed. Their GM should get top consideration for Executive Of The Year.

You saw the poll I'm referring to. Different people voting, but it's a perspective out there.

Can you please repost it? I don't remember.

I think bloggers give the Pelicans credit, as I can find many articles on their pick and roll schemes, which relates back to coaching.

Oh, you mean the ESPN coaching poll. Got it.

Maybe we'll see how coaching is during the actual award voting, with respect to where Monty Williams finishes.

Well, ESPN isn't the only media that votes on MVP. Sportswriters and broadcasters vote on it.

As for Duncan and Garnett, I think the scoring isn't valued at a certain point, but their defense is. So their defense is added into the MVP consideration. When the MVP votes were done, "intangibles" (defense) was probably mentioned. I'm explaining how I think the voters think.

So for some players (Malone), I don't think their scoring was valued after a certain point.

I think Duncan and Garnett's length made them both good individual and team defenders, but Malone only a good individual defender.

As for some great players on bad teams, their team may never be good. Their GM might suck and make a lot of bad moves. Or there might be a lot of injuries. I could give examples of some teams that I think had great players, but their team moves were mismanaged and they could never get good because of it, but that would be a longer post, and a different topic. But it does happen, sometimes.

Even Michael Jordan didn't do it by himself, he had to have Pippen playing at a high level, before he won any significant series. Not to mention big men like Horace Grant and Rodman.

A team like the Jazz with Boozer and Williams, could have been better if they had a better SG. One that could shoot better, and had more size on defense. Brewer could never shoot well enough, and was a little small (but with good quickness) on defense. Miles could shoot ok, but not score enough, and was too small on defense. But if the Jazz could have gotten the right guard fit, they would have been stronger contenders, and Williams would have gotten higher on MVP votes (even if Boozer was picked for ASGs). IMO.

Ok, comparing more stats between Malone and Davis, I wanted to see why Davis' PER was higher. Other than FT%, the other big difference I see is turnovers. Davis averages a low 1.3 turnovers per game, and career 1.5. Malone averaged 2.8 and 3.3 in his 2 MVP seasons, and was a career 3.0 turnover per game player.


Also, I'm not sure what year of Garnett's you're referring to, but I didn't see any year he averaged
21.7. In his MVP year, he averaged 24.2 points, 13.9 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.4 blocks, 49.9 FG, 79.1 FT, 2.6 turnovers (still more than 1 less per game than Malone). His PER was 29.4.

 

[nuraman00]

I'm bored with the steals race, I think it's a weak year.



Paul is all over this in recent years:



NBA & ABA Year-by-Year Leaders and Records for Steals Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com



Wow, it's only Paul's 2nd time < 2.0 steals.


If they do steals % instead of steals per game, this looks a lot better. Tony Allen is having a great steal % year.



NBA & ABA Year-by-Year Leaders and Records for Steal Pct | Basketball-Reference.com



I guess the problem is that Allen doesn't play enough minutes to get more possessions.


Whether Leonard gets it with 2.4, or Curry with 2.0, it's just a weak year.


I've said before that Stockton's steals were even more impressive than his assists. Because he had both longevity and was prolific. People that I've studied, were either prolific, but could only do it for 3-4 years, then dropped off a lot. Or they did it for 15-18 years, but at < 2 a game.

Stockton had 10 years at more than 2.0, and 3 years at 3.0 or higher. To me, getting 2.7 steals or more makes for an exciting steals race, and Stockton had 5 of those years.

 

[MHSL82]

I'll get back to this when I have a bit more energy to reply. I don't really want to do anything right now. Anything. Even fun things. Not even sleep (not that I can at work).

I made up the Garnett stats, I'm just talking about how I think there's a huge difference between 25-26 points and 20-22. 23-24 is meh, but not as big.

 

[nuraman00]

I'll get back to this when I have a bit more energy to reply. I don't really want to do anything right now. Anything. Even fun things. Not even sleep (not that I can at work).

I made up the Garnett stats, I'm just talking about how I think there's a huge difference between 25-26 points and 20-22. 23-24 is meh, but not as big.

Thanks.

 

[nuraman00]

Watching Rondo start the game yesterday by guarding Harden, made me smile. It's rare that you see the best wing defender start off a game by guarding the best opposing player. Usually now, it's only used in the 4th quarter, or situationaly.

I know Rondo is motivated and likes those challenges. I'm sure most people remember how he spontaneously guarded Lebron James during a game in 2011.

It's another reason why I'd consider him in the offseason. Yes, I'm not 100% sure he's a perfect fit. But that's why Dennis Lindsey should also interview Rondo, and get a feel for what he would think of being on the Jazz, and leading them to greater heights. And also get more technical and talk about how he'd be used, and how he'd mesh with the other players.

If Lindsey thinks it could work out, then make him an offer.

Exum and Hood can learn from the veteran, and improve both their mindset, and games.

 

[nuraman00]

What I loved about the Stockton-Payton-Kidd matchups is those players guarded each other for the whole game. They made each other work.

Rondo would bring that back.

 

[nuraman00]

Barkley is incensed that Brook Lopez only had 7 FGAs. He blamed Lopez teammates. Lopez had 17 points in 6-7 FG.

Said Deron has to get Lopez the ball more. And if Deron is too injured and hampered by his movement, then he said Jack should play more.

 

[nuraman00]

As promised, a new Around the League Thread has been started. Pop the champagne and give your sweetie a kiss, as this is s huge day for this board.

Did you do these?

 

[nuraman00]

Bonus points! Anyone who can tell me what I learned about this article that is interesting to me, gets bonus points.


Hint: It's not about Kobe Bryant but it is numerically based.


Kobe Bryant of Los Angeles Lakers sets NBA record for missed field goals - ESPN Los Angeles

That Wilt Chamberlain had a lot of misses too?

I wouldn't have thought that, given his efficiency.

 

[nuraman00]

Wow, I never realized this, but Kobe Bryant has never shot over 50% for a season.

Kobe Bryant Stats - Los Angeles Lakers - ESPN

After 2008-2009, I noted that Brandon Roy had a top 30 season for a SG, with an ORTG of 123.

Bryant's best ORTG season? 115, done 3 times.