Series Thread: 1) Miami Heat vs. 2) Boston Celtics

[Wamu]

I’m telling you all, this dude has been here before

That's what it's starting to seem like. He's said a bunch of stupid shit.

 

[Wamu]

You said Tatum is tha best player. Now you're walking it back.

The other day he tired to compare Tatum to Tim Duncan. Insanity.

 

[msgkings322]

That's what it's starting to seem like. He's said a bunch of stupid shit.

There are plenty of stupid people who haven't been here before. Just sayin'

 

[Manster7588]

There are plenty of stupid people who haven't been here before. Just sayin'

Are you sure?

 

[msgkings322]

Are you sure?

Pretty sure that this board doesn't have ALL the stupid people. Just a big portion of them.

 

[tlance]

Pretty sure that this board doesn't have ALL the stupid people. Just a big portion of them.

Yeah, lots of stupid people out there.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That's what Durant will tell you. In reality he was shook by Tatum.

When Tatum was his primary defender, he had no chance. It wasn't necessary to swarm him.

Tatum's greatness is based off his defense. He's a very very good offensive player but he wouldn't be who he is without his defense, the stats back that up. It's like taking away Tim Duncan defense, that's the special part about his game (and Tatums).

Think scottie pippen with volume scoring and elite 3 point shooting

I remember watching Lebron, an older Lebron, abuse Tatum. He always thought he was going to be a really good player but Tatum is a pretty good defender but he isn't lockdown like Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Kawhi, Butler, KD in his prime days or Giannis...maybe some day he will form into an elite defender but he still isn't there yet. You see stretches but he doesn't lock many down those guys did consistently.

Lets be clear, he should never be used in the same sentence as Scottie. Scottie was arguably the greatest wing defender of all-time. Tatum is just a good defender with no accolades to back it up. Scottie was a pitbull, Tatum is shih tzu.

 

[Wamu]

I remember watching Lebron, an older Lebron, abuse Tatum. He always thought he was going to be a really good player but Tatum is a pretty good defender but he isn't lockdown like Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Kawhi, Butler, KD in his prime days or Giannis...maybe some day he will form into an elite defender but he still isn't there yet. You see stretches but he doesn't lock many down those guys did consistently.

Lets be clear, he should never be used in the same sentence as Scottie. Scottie was arguably the greatest wing defender of all-time. Tatum is just a good defender with no accolades to back it up. Scottie was a pitbull, Tatum is shih tzu.

Tatum in no way is on Scottie's level defensively, like you mentioned. He's 24 and has yet to be selected to an all defensive team. At the same age Scottie averaged 2.6 stls & 1.2 blks. He didn't make an all defensive team that season somehow, but much better numbers than Tatum.

The following year he earned his first of 10 consecutive all defense selections (8x 1st team). Tatum no matter how much he improves on the defensive end will never be the defender Scottie was. He was also the better passer.

 

[tlance]

Tatum in no way is on Scottie's level defensively, like you mentioned. He's 24 and has yet to be selected to an all defensive team. At the same age Scottie averaged 2.6 stls & 1.2 blks. He didn't make an all defensive team that season somehow, but much better numbers than Tatum.

The following year he earned his first of 10 consecutive all defense selections (8x 1st team). Tatum no matter how much he improves on the defensive end will never be the defender Scottie was. He was also the better passer.

Yeah, Scottie was a game wrecker.

Marcus Smart isn’t nearly as good as Scottie either, but he is the closest in the league today. Scottie could totally eliminate good players from an offense.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

You just cited a stat created by this astute basketball mind that called Hillary in a blow out in 2016. Way to think it through.

View attachment 297838

it checks out with the eye test. Every stat was created by some nerd anyway.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

You said Tatum is tha best player. Now you're walking it back.

i never walked anything back. I've always said he's the best. The only one that comes close today is Kawin Leonard when he's healthy.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

I’m telling you all, this dude has been here before

reddit, realgm, insidehoops.

Never here though, i just found out this place existed about a week ago.

 

[tlance]

it checks out with the eye test. Every stat was created by some nerd anyway.

No, it doesn’t check out with the eye test.

You might need to get your eyes checked if you think it does.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

No, that is totally wrong.

Guarding Kyrie 1 on 1 is way harder than guarding KD with everyone else locked in to helping on KD. The entire defensive scheme was designed around stopping Durant because they trusted Smart to guard Kyrie.

And of course Brooklyn tried to use screens to free KD. It would be stupid not to. It didn’t work because again, the entire Celtic defense was tilted toward Durant and help was always going that way.

Really? Guarding Irving lol he has been shit in the playoffs every single year since he left cavs.

 

[tlance]

Really? Guarding Irving lol he has been shit in the playoffs every single year since he left cavs.

Yes. Kyrie is one of the best scorers in the league.

Guarding a top scorer with no help is a lot harder than guarding an even better scorer with a lot of help.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

Yeah, Scottie was a game wrecker.

Marcus Smart isn’t nearly as good as Scottie either, but he is the closest in the league today. Scottie could totally eliminate good players from an offense.

Tatum in no way is on Scottie's level defensively, like you mentioned. He's 24 and has yet to be selected to an all defensive team. At the same age Scottie averaged 2.6 stls & 1.2 blks. He didn't make an all defensive team that season somehow, but much better numbers than Tatum.

The following year he earned his first of 10 consecutive all defense selections (8x 1st team). Tatum no matter how much he improves on the defensive end will never be the defender Scottie was. He was also the better passer.

These days, all defense selections are just awards for role player to make them feel better about themselves. Guys like Beverly and Marcus Smart.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

Since you wont believe it from me. Here's a good take from realgm back in mid may:

Tatum's on/off differential on the defensive end is at a point where it can no longer be denied that he is a great defender. 3 of his 5 years have him as the best on the team (of players with more than 1000 minutes) and 1 other year he was second best on the team. Some times this stuff can be fluky, but when it happens year after year, people are missing something. He has a Covington off ball thing going on, but he also has become great on ball as well. The Celtics elite defense was 6.2 points better with Tatum on the floor this year. Take Smart off the floor, and the defense was still elite with Tatum. Take Horford off, still elite. Take Robert Williams, still elite. Take Brown off, still elite. Take all 4 off at the same time, still elite. Tatum was poor on the defensive end last year (everybody notable on the Celtics was), but has been great for most of his career. DRAPM has him 21st, 29th, 7th, 365th, and 5th in his 5 years.

And the numbers just keep coming in the postseason. The Celtics defense has been 11.3 points per 100 better with him on the floor in the playoffs this year(best on the team). When they made their bubble run in 2020 to the ECF, their defense was 12.2 pts per 100 better with him on the floor in the playoffs. That was best on the team by 7 points. When they made their run to the ECF in 2018, the Celtics defense was 11.9 pts per 100 better with him on the floor in the playoffs...... best on the team.

 

[trojanfan12]

Since you wont believe it from me. Here's a good take from realgm back in mid may:

Tatum's on/off differential on the defensive end is at a point where it can no longer be denied that he is a great defender. 3 of his 5 years have him as the best on the team (of players with more than 1000 minutes) and 1 other year he was second best on the team. Some times this stuff can be fluky, but when it happens year after year, people are missing something. He has a Covington off ball thing going on, but he also has become great on ball as well. The Celtics elite defense was 6.2 points better with Tatum on the floor this year. Take Smart off the floor, and the defense was still elite with Tatum. Take Horford off, still elite. Take Robert Williams, still elite. Take Brown off, still elite. Take all 4 off at the same time, still elite. Tatum was poor on the defensive end last year (everybody notable on the Celtics was), but has been great for most of his career. DRAPM has him 21st, 29th, 7th, 365th, and 5th in his 5 years.

And the numbers just keep coming in the postseason. The Celtics defense has been 11.3 points per 100 better with him on the floor in the playoffs this year(best on the team). When they made their bubble run in 2020 to the ECF, their defense was 12.2 pts per 100 better with him on the floor in the playoffs. That was best on the team by 7 points. When they made their run to the ECF in 2018, the Celtics defense was 11.9 pts per 100 better with him on the floor in the playoffs...... best on the team.

No one cares what minor league sites have to say.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

Yes. Kyrie is one of the best scorers in the league.

Guarding a top scorer with no help is a lot harder than guarding an even better scorer with a lot of help.

22PPG on 54% TS in playoffs since he left cavs. Average second option who has no business being put in the same sentence as Durant.

 

[Kawhi_2_Murray]

No one cares what minor league sites have to say.

The stats all check out what i'm saying is my point.