Who's your pick for the four playoff teams?

[4down20]

You are the one who said Saban had the best season in 90 years or whatever. I just pointed out the coach before him in year 5, not only had a better year, but won the B1G, went undefeated in conference and won the Rose Bowl.

And what did Saban build at MSU? He took over a 6 win team and went 6, 6, 7, 6 and finally 9 wins. Then the team went back to mediocre. So a single good year is building a good team? Does that mean Brady Hoke built a good team? He won 11 games once.

As I've said repeatedly. Saban is a very good coach. The SEC advantages make him great. He isn't coaching up talent -- he already has BY FAR the most talented team, and it has been that way for years and years now. It is akin to giving the New England Patriots the #1 pick after winning the SB. Yet in your world that is a level playing field.

It was Michigan St's best season since the 60's. Again, there is a big difference in building up a team and everyone around you having a bad year.

I find it extremely amusing how you won't count or give Saban any credit for Michigan St's bowl win that year, but you still give Harbaugh credit for the shit Stanford does even these years later.

If you don't think Saban is coaching up talent then you're just stupid. You get people like Odell Beckham saying things about how Landon Collins came into the NFL ready because he played at Alabama and your ignorant ass is talking about how Saban doesn't coach up players.

You're an idiot, plain and simple.

 

[outofyourmind]

Florida State
Alabama
USC
Oklahoma

 

[7Samurai13]

It was Michigan St's best season since the 60's. Again, there is a big difference in building up a team and everyone around you having a bad year.

I find it extremely amusing how you won't count or give Saban any credit for Michigan St's bowl win that year, but you still give Harbaugh credit for the shit Stanford does even these years later.

If you don't think Saban is coaching up talent then you're just stupid. You get people like Odell Beckham saying things about how Landon Collins came into the NFL ready because he played at Alabama and your ignorant ass is talking about how Saban doesn't coach up players.

You're an idiot, plain and simple.

Well he didn't say Saban didn't coach up, that I could remember at least. He just said that coaching up doesn't matter, it's all about acquiring talent. Except Tennessee acquired a lot of talent and did nothing. Michigan State, Washington, and Oregon all had little talent but all have made a playoff.

 

[romeo212000]

Lol @TrustMeIamRight acting like he wouldn't nut his panties if Michigan hired Saban tomorrow.

 

[4down20]

Well he didn't say Saban didn't coach up, that I could remember at least. He just said that coaching up doesn't matter, it's all about acquiring talent. Except Tennessee acquired a lot of talent and did nothing. Michigan State, Washington, and Oregon all had little talent but all have made a playoff.

He isn't coaching up talent -- he already has BY FAR the most talented team, and it has been that way for years and years now. It is akin to giving the New England Patriots the #1 pick after winning the SB. Yet in your world that is a level playing field.

Alabama players are known to be some of the best coached players coming out of college in the NFL. It's a ridiculous statement.

 

[outofyourmind]

Oklahoma
Ohio State
Florida State
Alabama

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

It was Michigan St's best season since the 60's. Again, there is a big difference in building up a team and everyone around you having a bad year.

I find it extremely amusing how you won't count or give Saban any credit for Michigan St's bowl win that year, but you still give Harbaugh credit for the shit Stanford does even these years later.

If you don't think Saban is coaching up talent then you're just stupid. You get people like Odell Beckham saying things about how Landon Collins came into the NFL ready because he played at Alabama and your ignorant ass is talking about how Saban doesn't coach up players.

You're an idiot, plain and simple.

Building a program and an identity is sustainable success for the program. What he did at MSU is have one year where the bounces went their way and he left.

He won 6, 6, 7, 6, 9 in 5 years. After he left, they won 5, 7, 4, 8, 5. What program did he build? If you build a program, you have sustainable success. I mention Stanford because they were burnt to the ground when they hired Harbaugh. They won 4,4,5 and 1 in 4 years prior. His 4 years, they won 4, 5, 8, 12. When he left, they won 11, 12, 11. THAT is building a program, not a one year wonder.

And I don't give credit to Saban because he coached 3 bowl games at MSU and they were blown out in all 3.

And I can't help but laugh. You bring up Landon Collins. The #1 safety coming out of HS. 5 star and one of the top 5 players coming out of HS. As ive said repeatedly -- he has, by far, the most talented team in CFB and it isn't even remotely close.

Coaching up a player is taking a guy like Jack Conklin who was a walk on at MSU and he ends up being a 1st round pick and 1st team all-pro as a rookie.

So as I've said -- he is a very good coach outside the SEC. he is a great coach in the SEC.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well he didn't say Saban didn't coach up, that I could remember at least. He just said that coaching up doesn't matter, it's all about acquiring talent. Except Tennessee acquired a lot of talent and did nothing. Michigan State, Washington, and Oregon all had little talent but all have made a playoff.

I'm not saying he did nothing. I'm saying Saban has 5 star recruits backing up 5 star recruits. The players already have elite talent and in the case of most elite recruits -- they have advanced training beyond just playing HS football.

He isn't taking top 25, top 30 recruiting classes and turning them into elite players. He has a team STACKED with elite talent and deciding which one will start and which one is waiting to replace them.

 

[7Samurai13]

Building a program and an identity is sustainable success for the program. What he did at MSU is have one year where the bounces went their way and he left.

He won 6, 6, 7, 6, 9 in 5 years. After he left, they won 5, 7, 4, 8, 5. What program did he build? If you build a program, you have sustainable success. I mention Stanford because they were burnt to the ground when they hired Harbaugh. They won 4,4,5 and 1 in 4 years prior. His 4 years, they won 4, 5, 8, 12. When he left, they won 11, 12, 11. THAT is building a program, not a one year wonder.

And I don't give credit to Saban because he coached 3 bowl games at MSU and they were blown out in all 3.

And I can't help but laugh. You bring up Landon Collins. The #1 safety coming out of HS. 5 star and one of the top 5 players coming out of HS. As ive said repeatedly -- he has, by far, the most talented team in CFB and it isn't even remotely close.

Coaching up a player is taking a guy like Jack Conklin who was a walk on at MSU and he ends up being a 1st round pick and 1st team all-pro as a rookie.

So as I've said -- he is a very good coach outside the SEC. he is a great coach in the SEC.

So Harbaugh taking the top 10 classes that he inherited to third play finishes in the division means he is a good coach?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So Harbaugh taking the top 10 classes that he inherited to third play finishes in the division means he is a good coach?

We've discussed this already. Many of the guys who made the classes top 5 aren't even with the program anymore. And the biggest issue of UM's struggles, especially during the Hoke era was QB play.

That being said -- I will say last year was a major disappointment. And anyone who watched the games can tell you what cost them at the end of the year -- Wilton Speight. To lose 5 games by a total of 5 points sucks.

I didn't expect much from UM until Harbaugh gets one of his own QB's under center. Last year I had hope because of the defense and Speight gave me a false hope with his play against lesser teams.

 

[bamabear82]

So Harbaugh taking the top 10 classes that he inherited to third play finishes in the division means he is a good coach?

It's crazy. Dude had like, what, 14 combine invites at his disposal and still couldn't finish better than 3rd in his division.

 

[7Samurai13]

It's crazy. Dude had like, what, 14 combine invites at his disposal and still couldn't finish better than 3rd in his division.

Because there was no talent on the team when Harbaugh got there according to many Michigan fans. All 14 of those guys must have been from his two recruiting classes that he had.

 

[4down20]

Building a program and an identity is sustainable success for the program. What he did at MSU is have one year where the bounces went their way and he left.

He won 6, 6, 7, 6, 9 in 5 years. After he left, they won 5, 7, 4, 8, 5. What program did he build? If you build a program, you have sustainable success. I mention Stanford because they were burnt to the ground when they hired Harbaugh. They won 4,4,5 and 1 in 4 years prior. His 4 years, they won 4, 5, 8, 12. When he left, they won 11, 12, 11. THAT is building a program, not a one year wonder.

And I don't give credit to Saban because he coached 3 bowl games at MSU and they were blown out in all 3.

And I can't help but laugh. You bring up Landon Collins. The #1 safety coming out of HS. 5 star and one of the top 5 players coming out of HS. As ive said repeatedly -- he has, by far, the most talented team in CFB and it isn't even remotely close.

Coaching up a player is taking a guy like Jack Conklin who was a walk on at MSU and he ends up being a 1st round pick and 1st team all-pro as a rookie.

So as I've said -- he is a very good coach outside the SEC. he is a great coach in the SEC.

So again Coach Shaw gets 0 credit for what he's done with the program. I'm actually somewhat of a Stanford fan. Shaw is the reason the program maintained. It was proven year before last when the program was using Shaw players and still had a very successful season.

And Saban did not start out with the most talent at Alabama. And we certainly weren't pulling in as many 5 stars as we have the past few years. Much of that has come as a result of our success. I know this may be a shock to you since you just started watching college football players, but Nick Saban only had 1 national championship prior to coming to Alabama and has built up the recruiting ease he has now through success.

But at any rate, citing 1 3 star doesn't really mean shit. Given the high number of 3 star recruits that go through and that you are citing like 1 and maybe a few at most make it to the NFL - it's actually more of a sign that the player worked his ass off to achieve what he did more so than anything special a coach did. At any rate - you do know that Alabama/Saban has put multiple 3 stars into the NFL right? Mark Ingram was a 3 star - won the heisman, drafted 1st round, been to pro bowl, etc. Oh - and he was pulled from Flint Michigan.

There is no doubt Alabama has superior talent now - but it's a small gap with many top teams. The notion that stocking up talent and not coaching them up is fucking ridiculous. Alabama gets that talent and has the success it does because they know they will be coached up better than anywhere else and that leads to success.

Just more ignorance on your part.

 

[Wamu]

Building a program and an identity is sustainable success for the program. What he did at MSU is have one year where the bounces went their way and he left.

He won 6, 6, 7, 6, 9 in 5 years. After he left, they won 5, 7, 4, 8, 5. What program did he build? If you build a program, you have sustainable success. I mention Stanford because they were burnt to the ground when they hired Harbaugh. They won 4,4,5 and 1 in 4 years prior. His 4 years, they won 4, 5, 8, 12. When he left, they won 11, 12, 11. THAT is building a program, not a one year wonder.

And I don't give credit to Saban because he coached 3 bowl games at MSU and they were blown out in all 3.

And I can't help but laugh. You bring up Landon Collins. The #1 safety coming out of HS. 5 star and one of the top 5 players coming out of HS. As ive said repeatedly -- he has, by far, the most talented team in CFB and it isn't even remotely close.

Coaching up a player is taking a guy like Jack Conklin who was a walk on at MSU and he ends up being a 1st round pick and 1st team all-pro as a rookie.

So as I've said -- he is a very good coach outside the SEC. he is a great coach in the SEC.

So what you're saying is Jimmy Jam's a better CFB coach than Saban right?

 

[B_dub]

Thrustmeinright has an uncanny ability to say the same 2 stupid things 4,879 times.

 

[Wamu]

Florida State
Alabama
USC
Oklahoma

...

meeeechegan
meeeechegan
meeeechegan
meeeechegan

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So again Coach Shaw gets 0 credit for what he's done with the program. I'm actually somewhat of a Stanford fan. Shaw is the reason the program maintained. It was proven year before last when the program was using Shaw players and still had a very successful season.

And Saban did not start out with the most talent at Alabama. And we certainly weren't pulling in as many 5 stars as we have the past few years. Much of that has come as a result of our success. I know this may be a shock to you since you just started watching college football players, but Nick Saban only had 1 national championship prior to coming to Alabama and has built up the recruiting ease he has now through success.

But at any rate, citing 1 3 star doesn't really mean shit. Given the high number of 3 star recruits that go through and that you are citing like 1 and maybe a few at most make it to the NFL - it's actually more of a sign that the player worked his ass off to achieve what he did more so than anything special a coach did. At any rate - you do know that Alabama/Saban has put multiple 3 stars into the NFL right? Mark Ingram was a 3 star - won the heisman, won

There is no doubt Alabama has superior talent now - but it's a small gap with many top teams. The notion that stocking up talent and not coaching them up is fucking ridiculous. Alabama gets that talent and has the success it does because they know they will be coached up better than anywhere else and that leads to success.

Just more ignorance on your part.

Shaw does get credit for maintaining the success. Who do you think he worked under and learned how the program was built? Shaw not only was a coordinator for all four years at Stanford under Harbaugh. He also worked under him at San Diego too.

Here, since 1 recruit doesn't mean shit. THIS is developing talent -- not having the most talented team, by a landslide, and then professing how he 'coaches them up':

Jack Conklin -- he was a ZERO star recruit. Zero Division 1 offers. Walk on at MSU. 1st round pick NFL draft

Darqueze Dennard -- two star recruit -- zero division 1 offers. MSU gave him a scholarship. 1st round NFL draft pick

Trae Waynes -- two star recruit -- MSU had to beat out North Dakota, Bowling Green and Central Mich Fan to sign him. 1st round pick in the NFL

Le'Veon Bell -- the 131st ranked running back out of HS. MSU had to beat out Marshall and Eastern Michigan to sign him. #1 RB in the NFL

Connor Cook -- recruited out of HS by nobody. MSU gives him a scholarship and he is one of the best QB's in CFB and turns MSU into a top 10 program.

Should I keep going? Kirk Cousins, Shalique Calhoun, Greg Jones, Jerel Worthy, Jeremy Langford, etc.

THAT is developing talent. What Saban does isn't developing talent -- it is getting elite talents to play alongside each other. Big difference. It is why I said Saban couldn't do what Dantonio has done at MSU.

And the only people saying it is a small gap is delusional Bama fans who don't have a grasp on reality. Here you go -- this is from last year's CFB playoff:

Number of 5 star recruits

Alabama: 23

Ohio State, Washington, Clemson COMBINED: 10

Tell us all again about how close the talent gap is and how CFB isn't about collecting the most talent. That is ALL it is about. It is also why Saban will never leave the SEC. Understanding yet why I say, very good football coach, but a great coach in the SEC?

And save your breathe on your ridiculous retort of -- "oh look, a Michigan fan fan sucking MSU's dick". I was born and raised in Michigan and you learn about both programs. It is why I say with confidence Saban couldn't do what Dantonio did because he wouldn't get the recruits and he'd have to ACTUALLY coach up talent.

 

[4down20]

Shaw does get credit for maintaining the success. Who do you think he worked under and learned how the program was built? Shaw not only was a coordinator for all four years at Stanford under Harbaugh. He also worked under him at San Diego too.

Here, since 1 recruit doesn't mean shit. THIS is developing talent -- not having the most talented team, by a landslide, and then professing how he 'coaches them up':

Jack Conklin -- he was a ZERO star recruit. Zero Division 1 offers. Walk on at MSU. 1st round pick NFL draft

Darqueze Dennard -- two star recruit -- zero division 1 offers. MSU gave him a scholarship. 1st round NFL draft pick

Trae Waynes -- two star recruit -- MSU had to beat out North Dakota, Bowling Green and Central Mich Fan to sign him. 1st round pick in the NFL

Le'Veon Bell -- the 131st ranked running back out of HS. MSU had to beat out Marshall and Eastern Michigan to sign him. #1 RB in the NFL

Connor Cook -- recruited out of HS by nobody. MSU gives him a scholarship and he is one of the best QB's in CFB and turns MSU into a top 10 program.

Should I keep going? Kirk Cousins, Shalique Calhoun, Greg Jones, Jerel Worthy, Jeremy Langford, etc.

THAT is developing talent. What Saban does isn't developing talent -- it is getting elite talents to play alongside each other. Big difference. It is why I said Saban couldn't do what Dantonio has done at MSU.

And the only people saying it is a small gap is delusional Bama fans who don't have a grasp on reality. Here you go -- this is from last year's CFB playoff:

Number of 5 star recruits

Alabama: 23

Ohio State, Washington, Clemson COMBINED: 10

Tell us all again about how close the talent gap is and how CFB isn't about collecting the most talent. That is ALL it is about. It is also why Saban will never leave the SEC. Understanding yet why I say, very good football coach, but a great coach in the SEC?

And save your breathe on your ridiculous retort of -- "oh look, a Michigan fan fan sucking MSU's dick". I was born and raised in Michigan and you learn about both programs. It is why I say with confidence Saban couldn't do what Dantonio did because he wouldn't get the recruits and he'd have to ACTUALLY coach up talent.

It's funny that you call Shaw a product of Harbaugh while at the same time trying to use Dantonio to downgrade Saban.

It's even more funny that in response to pointing out that the talent has built up over time - you bring out stats from...last year.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

It's funny that you call Shaw a product of Harbaugh while at the same time trying to use Dantonio to downgrade Saban.

It's even more funny that in response to pointing out that the talent has built up over time - you bring out stats from...last year.

In your prior post, you literally said: the talent gap is small with the top teams right now. I just gave you the numbers from right now. Bama has almost 2.5 time more 5 star recruits than the other playoff teams COMBINED.

And I'm not using Dantonio to downgrade anybody. I'm using him as an example of what developing talent is.

 

[socaljim242]

Alabama
Ohio State
Oklahoma
USC or Washington