Hell has frozen over

[4down20]

Coming in "about the same time" is no where near the truth. McElwain was hired Dec. 4th -- almost an entire month before Harbaugh was hired. That's a pretty significant difference -- twice as much time to recruit. His real advantage was in state talent. Michigan has limited in-state talent, Florida has a lot. Most of the kids he was able to get, that were highly ranked, were from Florida.

In addition, he was already in the college game and had relationships built with recruits. Harbaugh was coming off..what...3 or 4 years in the NFL where he had no contacts with recruits. That's also a significant difference. Harbaugh came in, had no contact with recruits prior to the day he was hired and had a couple of days before a dead period hit to recruit. Then there were two weeks of dead period where he could only call recruits, not visit, and then he had about a week before signing day.

And lastly, our class was never going to be ranked very well with only 15 spots unless we really stacked the top of it with 5 stars. They got two five star kids, but all and all we have about the same top end talent. Michigan got 6 four star kids, Florida got 5 and two 5 star kids. Florida has the edge, sure. Florida was also forced to sign 9 kids with a 5.5 three star rating or worse. Michigan had 2 of those. So we certainly have the better bottom end to our class.

Ok, let me put it another way - McElwain more than exceeded what people expected him to get out of this class. While Harbaugh didn't manage to wow anyone in the time he had.

And don't give me that limited spots stuff. It's already been shown that Michigan tried to get well beyond any limitations on the spots.

 

[Agent Orange]

They scheduled this game a couple years ago. Sucks to be Florida though because #1: They can't beat Michigan #2: lol at their coach vs. Jim Harbaugh

I'm not going to talk bad about McElwain. I wanted him and Muschump to be the next HC and DC at Michigan. Glad we have Harbaugh, but no reason to disrespect another quality coach.

If Michigan keeps posting one good season a decade we will catch you soon.

We would literally have to stop playing football for you to catch us, sucking won't be enough. Western Michigan has the same chance of overtaking us as the number one program in Michigan as Sparty...

2 has-been programs. Might be a decent game.

Touche rainbow humper

 

[7Samurai13]

We would literally have to stop playing football for you to catch us, sucking won't be enough. Western Michigan has the same chance of overtaking us as the number one program in Michigan as Sparty...

Luckily for Michigan State, Michigan has quit playing football. Instead they have been giving away free tickets to games, searching for moral victories since they can't get a legit one on the field, ignoring concussed players, and concerned with nasty emails fans have been sending the AD.

You Michigan fans are some of the most arrogant people out there considering the best thing that happened for you the last decade was a gift to a bowl game you didn't deserve.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Ok, let me put it another way - McElwain more than exceeded what people expected him to get out of this class. While Harbaugh didn't manage to wow anyone in the time he had.

And don't give me that limited spots stuff. It's already been shown that Michigan tried to get well beyond any limitations on the spots.

Of course Michigan tried for some kids and didn't get them, but only a couple of the top targets weren't already committed elsewhere. You can downplay the time frame all you want but that's the reality of the situation. I'm not sure what people expected, really, in that amount of time. He got like 5 kids to flip their commitments, including a top 150 QB. Recruiting is hugely a relationship game and you're not going to build a strong relationship in a couple weeks.

I'm not sure McElwain exceeded what people expected. As mentioned, the players he got were Florida leans to begin with, some even fans of Florida growing up, and most were from the state. The only huge target we were going after in the state was already committed to Ohio State; who just won a national title. If Harbaugh had been given an equal amount of time I have little doubt we would have hit on a few more big name targets.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Luckily for Michigan State, Michigan has quit playing football. Instead they have been giving away free tickets to games, searching for moral victories since they can't get a legit one on the field, ignoring concussed players, and concerned with nasty emails fans have been sending the AD.

You Michigan fans are some of the most arrogant people out there considering the best thing that happened for you the last decade was a gift to a bowl game you didn't deserve.

lol at Free. They were clearly worth a couple of Cokes. That's not free my friend. Though, I'm not sure MSU has any room to talk. This has been your best 6 year stretch in like 50 years and you still can't sell out games. We're still filling our stadium with tens of thousands of more people every Saturday than MSU, despite our sucking recently. I suspect this will all change this season. The draw of Harbaugh is enough to re-sell out the stadium for at least a season.

It's funny, all the things you listed have been remedied by the firing of a couple people. Ignoring concussed players is tied to Hoke, not Michigan. Unless I'm allowed to say that all MSU fans randomly slap themselves with frustration?

 

[7Samurai13]

lol at Free. They were clearly worth a couple of Cokes. That's not free my friend. Though, I'm not sure MSU has any room to talk. This has been your best 6 year stretch in like 50 years and you still can't sell out games. We're still filling our stadium with tens of thousands of more people every Saturday than MSU, despite our sucking recently. I suspect this will all change this season. The draw of Harbaugh is enough to re-sell out the stadium for at least a season.

It's funny, all the things you listed have been remedied by the firing of a couple people. Ignoring concussed players is tied to Hoke, not Michigan. Unless I'm allowed to say that all MSU fans randomly slap themselves with frustration?

Michigan's sell out streak is about as legit as Boston Red Sox streak. There are tons of empty seats last and have been drawing nearly more Ohio State fans for The Game as they are Michigan fans. Michigan has a much larger and faithful fanbase than MSU, but if you do not believe that they are the most arrogant fanbase in college football then you are just blind.

"Rich Rod is going to run through the Big Ten and destroy everyone"
"Forcier is the greatest quarterback ever, Heisman wrapped up"
"Denard is the greatest quarterback ever, Heisman wrapped up"
"Hoke is going to bring back old school Michigan Football, National Title in 5 years guaranteed."

No other fanbase is like that for absolutely no reason. Now it's started again with Harbaugh. Why don't we let him get a win in the Big Ten before we crown him the best coach in the Big Ten.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Michigan's sell out streak is about as legit as Boston Red Sox streak. There are tons of empty seats last and have been drawing nearly more Ohio State fans for The Game as they are Michigan fans. Michigan has a much larger and faithful fanbase than MSU, but if you do not believe that they are the most arrogant fanbase in college football then you are just blind.

"Rich Rod is going to run through the Big Ten and destroy everyone"
"Forcier is the greatest quarterback ever, Heisman wrapped up"
"Denard is the greatest quarterback ever, Heisman wrapped up"
"Hoke is going to bring back old school Michigan Football, National Title in 5 years guaranteed."

No other fanbase is like that for absolutely no reason. Now it's started again with Harbaugh. Why don't we let him get a win in the Big Ten before we crown him the best coach in the Big Ten.

We don't have a sell out streak, we have a over 100,000+ crowd streak. And I agree, we probably dipped below that at some point last season. Either way, we still have more people coming to games than MSU.

Are we the most arrogant in CFB? I'm not sure why it's bad to be arrogant? We've won a lot, we have one of the best histories in CFB, we have one of the best schools in CFB, we have some of the best facilities in CFB and we have a winning record over all rivals. When you win that much, you are proud of it. Being proud of that is seen as arrogance by rival fans. Winning makes the other side hate you and think you're arrogant - evidence? - I'd call Mark D. one of the most arrogant coaches out there.

As I've stated many times, it's hard to compare our reaction to RR and Hoke to Harbaugh. When RR was hired there was no reason to think that he wouldn't succeed. He was coming off a great stint at WVU and we were still a very successful team coming out of Lloyd and we hired a guy we thought would revolutionize the program. Not many people said the same thing about Hoke off the bat. In fact, I remember posting on the old ESPN forums the "we are ND" video when Hoke was hired. After his first season, that opinion changed. Again, we were wrong. With that said, Harbaugh is proven. He's universally considered one of the best coaches in the game (NFL and college). This was the case before coming to Michigan and remains true. He will succeed. I think it would be stupid to believe otherwise or even think that it's similar to the RR or Hoke hires. Stupid or naive. The only people questioning his ability to succeed come from our rivals.

 

[Texas Jefe]

SEC took it over, Texas fans are crying. I'm fine with it.

Schools outside the state have been recruiting in the state for a long time.

Just because SEC now has a team in the state, does not effect Alabama getting Texas recruits: They always get a player or two, if they are players Bama wants. Nothing's really changed.

 

[Agent Orange]

Luckily for Michigan State, Michigan has quit playing football. Instead they have been giving away free tickets to games, searching for moral victories since they can't get a legit one on the field, ignoring concussed players, and concerned with nasty emails fans have been sending the AD.

You Michigan fans are some of the most arrogant people out there considering the best thing that happened for you the last decade was a gift to a bowl game you didn't deserve.

So you don't know what the word, LITERALLY means? Because it seemed pretty obvious that LITERALLY was the operative word. I'm not being arrogant about Michigan football, we've been down for a decade. However, we will always be MICHIGAN and you will always be SPARTY, us sucking won't change that.

Lighten up 7Samurai, you started the banter with you initial comment. None of my comments are meant to offend you, maybe irritate but not offend. Well, unless you were that bastard Cleaves, then would be a different story -- can't stand that guy. But you, I generally respect you... despite you root for the team in green.

 

[7Samurai13]

So you don't know what the word, LITERALLY means? Because it seemed pretty obvious that LITERALLY was the operative word. I'm not being arrogant about Michigan football, we've been down for a decade. However, we will always be MICHIGAN and you will always be SPARTY, us sucking won't change that.

Lighten up 7Samurai, you started the banter with you initial comment. None of my comments are meant to offend you, maybe irritate but not offend. Well, unless you were that bastard Cleaves, then would be a different story -- can't stand that guy. But you, I generally respect you... despite you root for the team in green.

I'm going to call bullshit on your second paragraph. Making an ignorant statement like Western Michigan is more likely to be the number one team in the state the MSU, wasn't meant to offend.

 

[Tin Man]

Florida has scheduled to play Michigan at Jerry's World to start the 2017 season. Well, bust my buttons. Hoopsters have scooped Andy Staples. That is something. UF did do a fine job of keeping the OOC in the Swamp for quite awhile.

The Jerry's World venue surprises me a bit. The Chick-fil-A Kick-Off Classic has a hard on for SEC teams. Perhaps, Texas is a bigger target than Georgia for UM recruiting.

 

[Agent Orange]

I'm going to call bullshit on your second paragraph. Making an ignorant statement like Western Michigan is more likely to be the number one team in the state the MSU, wasn't meant to offend.

So now you don't recognize hyperbole?

The point being conveyed was: Sparty is not a threat to supplant Michigan as THE team in Michigan.

Much like Okie Junior and UCLA are not threats supplant Oklahoma and USC. This doesn't mean Sparty cannot have a good-to-great program. But... if you want to take it that way that's your prerogative.

 

[7Samurai13]

So now you don't recognize hyperbole?

The point being conveyed was: Sparty is not a threat to supplant Michigan as THE team in Michigan.

Much like Okie Junior and UCLA are not threats supplant Oklahoma and USC. This doesn't mean Sparty cannot have a good-to-great program. But... if you want to take it that way that's your prerogative.

Oh I'm not doubting that Michigan State will never pass over Michigan as the top team in the state short of something major to level of Penn State or worse happening. My guess is in basketball it is pretty close to 50/50 because much of the state is a "root for a winner" mentality, plus it's hard to hate on Izzo.

 

[Archangel]

Georgia is Poke territory now...

 

[Agent Orange]

Oh I'm not doubting that Michigan State will never pass over Michigan as the top team in the state short of something major to level of Penn State or worse happening. My guess is in basketball it is pretty close to 50/50 because much of the state is a "root for a winner" mentality, plus it's hard to hate on Izzo.

I think we're on the same/similar page regarding football.

EDIT: Let me clarify Sparty is, at worse, the third best team in the division. Meaning third/fourth in the conference when taking Wisconsin into account. Everyone else can DIAF

As for basketball...

More like 60-40 in favor of MSU

Izzo is a bitch who is afraid to coach in the NBA... I just want him to leave really, I would like Izzo under the right conditions.

 

[4down20]

Florida has scheduled to play Michigan at Jerry's World to start the 2017 season. Well, bust my buttons. Hoopsters have scooped Andy Staples. That is something. UF did do a fine job of keeping the OOC in the Swamp for quite awhile.

The Jerry's World venue surprises me a bit. The Chick-fil-A Kick-Off Classic has a hard on for SEC teams. Perhaps, Texas is a bigger target than Georgia for UM recruiting.

I'm pretty sure when your OOC schedule has Florida St on it every year with a bit of Miami mixed in, it's fine if you don't leave the state.

 

[ellupo]

We don't have a sell out streak, we have a over 100,000+ crowd streak. And I agree, we probably dipped below that at some point last season. Either way, we still have more people coming to games than MSU.

Are we the most arrogant in CFB? I'm not sure why it's bad to be arrogant? We've won a lot, we have one of the best histories in CFB, we have one of the best schools in CFB, we have some of the best facilities in CFB and we have a winning record over all rivals. When you win that much, you are proud of it. Being proud of that is seen as arrogance by rival fans. Winning makes the other side hate you and think you're arrogant - evidence? - I'd call Mark D. one of the most arrogant coaches out there.

As I've stated many times, it's hard to compare our reaction to RR and Hoke to Harbaugh. When RR was hired there was no reason to think that he wouldn't succeed. He was coming off a great stint at WVU and we were still a very successful team coming out of Lloyd and we hired a guy we thought would revolutionize the program. Not many people said the same thing about Hoke off the bat. In fact, I remember posting on the old ESPN forums the "we are ND" video when Hoke was hired. After his first season, that opinion changed. Again, we were wrong. With that said, Harbaugh is proven. He's universally considered one of the best coaches in the game (NFL and college). This was the case before coming to Michigan and remains true. He will succeed. I think it would be stupid to believe otherwise or even think that it's similar to the RR or Hoke hires. Stupid or naive. The only people questioning his ability to succeed come from our rivals.

I don't think its the wins thing that have people saying Michigan fans are arrogant. Its the "Michigan man" when we have seen Michigan men do all the same B.S. as any other but Michigan fans do not seem to see that. Things like the felon on the field with not game suspension, as some call it the r*pe cover up, to many things to list with Lewan and Michigan is the school with the most vacated wins in the NCAA. Michigan is no different than any other they like to look down on. That's where the arrogant claims come in, that Michigan is different.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I don't think its the wins thing that have people saying Michigan fans are arrogant. Its the "Michigan man" when we have seen Michigan men do all the same B.S. as any other but Michigan fans do not seem to see that. Things like the felon on the field with not game suspension, as some call it the r*pe cover up, to many things to list with Lewan and Michigan is the school with the most vacated wins in the NCAA. Michigan is no different than any other they like to look down on. That's where the arrogant claims come in, that Michigan is different.

Sure we are, but that doesn't mean some of the same things can't go on here that happen at lesser schools. You still have a football team filled with 120 18-22 year olds and the problems that circulate around that. Being morally superior doesn't mean there is no room to evaluate a situation and choose a different course. Giving kids second chances isn't universally a bad thing. And people seem to be forgetting the actual facts in the "r*pe" case. Nothing was covered up and the player was never charged. It was the girl who cried r*pe who failed to follow through on the charges. Last time I checked, we live in a society where someone needs to be proven guilty until we punish them for the crime. Michigan circumvented that by changing University policy.

 

[ellupo]

Sure we are, but that doesn't mean some of the same things can't go on here that happen at lesser schools. You still have a football team filled with 120 18-22 year olds and the problems that circulate around that. Being morally superior doesn't mean there is no room to evaluate a situation and choose a different course. Giving kids second chances isn't universally a bad thing. And people seem to be forgetting the actual facts in the "r*pe" case. Nothing was covered up and the player was never charged. It was the girl who cried r*pe who failed to follow through on the charges. Last time I checked, we live in a society where someone needs to be proven guilty until we punish them for the crime. Michigan circumvented that by changing University policy.

With the problems that have been up in AA, Michigan is the lesser schools for quite a while.

Its not about not giving 2nd chances it about receiving no punishment because the W is more important. You are correct about being morally superior but with the happenings in AA Michigan is not morally superior.

I think the university changing policy was basically saying if the coach and athletic dept. will not do what is right we will do it for them.

 

[7Samurai13]

Sure we are, but that doesn't mean some of the same things can't go on here that happen at lesser schools. You still have a football team filled with 120 18-22 year olds and the problems that circulate around that. Being morally superior doesn't mean there is no room to evaluate a situation and choose a different course. Giving kids second chances isn't universally a bad thing. And people seem to be forgetting the actual facts in the "r*pe" case. Nothing was covered up and the player was never charged. It was the girl who cried r*pe who failed to follow through on the charges. Last time I checked, we live in a society where someone needs to be proven guilty until we punish them for the crime. Michigan circumvented that by changing University policy.

Michigan buried the Taylor Lewan assault until well after he had played his last game so that they wouldn't have to punish him. It took 4 months to charge him for an assault that the guilty party was identified by both victims and eye witnesses at the time and was admitted at the time by the guilty party. The police department was in on it because they went as far as to close the case because there was not any "suspects". Ohio State suspended a guy for multiple games immediately just for being accused.

But Michigan is morally superior to everyone.