NFC East Thread

[Mitziman]

Dude 500 doesn’t make you competitive for suoerbowls period. ask any rational person who has AN inkling of the nfl

More moving the goal posts. And lowering the bar to claim success doesn’t change the facts . No NFL team In it’s history since 1920 has had a 500 or less team in a title game or super bowl .
Now if you are looking for participation trophies then you are good

dad, my initial post on this thread was in response to our boy onsies stating that the Redskins would not be "competitive"...had nothing to do about super bowls...only that they would be "competitive".

Never had participation trophies when i was growing up, and never let any of my kids take one either...but, when you hit that 22K post mark...you should ask for one...you deserve it.

 

[skinsdad62]

dad, my initial post on this thread was in response to our boy onsies stating that the Redskins would not be "competitive"...had nothing to do about super bowls...only that they would be "competitive".

Never had participation trophies when i was growing up, and never let any of my kids take one either...but, when you hit that 22K post mark...you should ask for one...you deserve it.

so what are we trying to be competitive for ? the 500 club ? avg is avg

 

[skinsdad62]

1. What were CDC ‘s win totals his first 3 years as a starter ?

ANS: he was 11-19 in his first three seasons, but has gone on to post a career record of 88-62-1. I'm not sure what his first three seasons have to do with anything, but if that's some sort of basis for something then his last three seasons he posted a record of 31-15. In a league that's all about "what have you done lately" the former seems much more relevant.

2. How many times have I had , if we are healthy then CDC should get better results ?

ANS: Isn't this the same basis upon which some have wrongly projected Kirk into getting us to a playoff and winning at least one game in the same? It's a team game, players don't become worse because someone goes down to injury. Their production might suffer because of it but that's because the overall talent level has waned a bit. Same for Kirk, same for Smith, each ironically manning the most dependent position in all of football.

3. I have no doubt KC would have had us in the playoffs this season and would have gotten us the win.

ANS: Then that shouldn't change with Smith. YOU see Smith as a lesser QB than Cousins and that's OK, but because YOU see things that way doesn't mean that it's true or everyone else agrees with you.


4. No way to prove it ever but every indicator points to yes

ANS: Find better indicators that don't support a biased perspective, there are plenty of them, including those coming from our HC, who envisions using Smith in ways that he couldn't with Kirk. It's going to be interesting to see reactions when Kirk gets 9, possibly 10 wins this year and a wildcard spot if that team stays healthy and lucky enough to get that much.

1) the implication was he couldnt win games (500) and we were doomed to avg
2) then better results should mean NFC title game ?

3) CDC is a lesser qb and i have posted every stat showing KC performs better , period shouldnt be any doubt about that

 

[Stymietee]

1) the implication was he couldnt win games (500) and we were doomed to avg
2) then better results should mean NFC title game ?

3) CDC is a lesser qb and i have posted every stat showing KC performs better , period shouldnt be any doubt about that

1. Then why the first 3 seasons? why not the last 3 when he was QB of a team that won a lot of them? Kirk in effect stabilized the position, I have yet to read anywhere, that the position is less stable with Smith behind center.

2. Better results would mean better than 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 in the next 3 seasons. That's all we ACTUALLY got when Kirk was QB here, there's no disputing that.

3. Maybe we should wait and see how Smith performs in Gruden's offensive system. We now have a chance to do that and ultimately make an actual, same circumstance comparison between the two. Right now it's all supposition and hype or an attempt to down-play the guy.

BTW: you all know that my position on Kirk evolved over time, ending with my view of him as a pretty good QB. My current position on Smith here is...????????????.

 

[Sharkinva]

1. Then why the first 3 seasons? why not the last 3 when he was QB of a team that won a lot of them? Kirk in effect stabilized the position, I have yet to read anywhere, that the position is less stable with Smith behind center.

2. Better results would mean better than 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 in the next 3 seasons. That's all we ACTUALLY got when Kirk was QB here, there's no disputing that.

3. Maybe we should wait and see how Smith performs in Gruden's offensive system. We now have a chance to do that and ultimately make an actual, same circumstance comparison between the two. Right now it's all supposition and hype or an attempt to down-play the guy.

BTW: you all know that my position on Kirk evolved over time, ending with my view of him as a pretty good QB. My current position on Smith here is...????????????.

1. The only thing Smith has done as a Redskins so far is sign a contract. So what he can or will do is subject to opinion. And if every free agent or signing by this team worked the way the front office expected, well I can think of a few guys who would have SUper Bowl rings as Redskins right now.

2. Sure finishing better than 9-7 would technically be better than what Kirk accomplished. But are we really lowering the bar like that?? I for one choose to hold Smith and the team to the exact same expectation that Cousins was vilified for. So no 9-7 wasnt good enough, any thing short of a playoffs appearance and a win in said playoffs is basically lowering expectations for the sake of saying we are a better team with Smith.

3. Kirk was down played at every turn by this fan base, and continues to be down played by posters on this very site. So again, shouldnt we expect MORE from Smith since many who did downplay the last QB have come out and stated repeatedly that Smith is a better QB??

 

[Stymietee]

1. The only thing Smith has done as a Redskins so far is sign a contract. So what he can or will do is subject to opinion. And if every free agent or signing by this team worked the way the front office expected, well I can think of a few guys who would have SUper Bowl rings as Redskins right now.

2. Sure finishing better than 9-7 would technically be better than what Kirk accomplished. But are we really lowering the bar like that?? I for one choose to hold Smith and the team to the exact same expectation that Cousins was vilified for. So no 9-7 wasnt good enough, any thing short of a playoffs appearance and a win in said playoffs is basically lowering expectations for the sake of saying we are a better team with Smith.

3. Kirk was down played at every turn by this fan base, and continues to be down played by posters on this very site. So again, shouldnt we expect MORE from Smith since many who did downplay the last QB have come out and stated repeatedly that Smith is a better QB??

1. OK, well, except for your last line, nice rewording of what I wrote.

2. Well, 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9, IS THE BAR, why? because that is precisely what we got with Kirk as QB here. Folks can have all of the "expectations" that they choose to have, just as long as they realize that there's nothing in real terms to base that upon other than hope and/or supposition. Cousins was vilified and lauded for his efforts here, IMO vilified because he didn't meet some unrealistic goals, lauded because he was made out to be more than he was. It would NOT be "technically" better to meet and exceed what Kirk gave us, it would by every metric, be, ACTUALLY BETTER!!

3. So what?? POOR ole' multimillionaire Kirk was and continues to be downplayed, want to know something? he deserved every bit of it from those who saw him as less than what others did. Poor ole' multimillionaire Kirk was also lauded as the "Apparent" by those who should have, but, didn't know better SO What??? H.E.'S G.O.N.E!! has been since 2015. I told you all back then and few if any wanted to believe it. I told you all that trading him, 3 straight years, would be in the best interest of this franchise, few if any wanted to believe it. SIGNING HIM TO A LTD WAS NOT AN OPTION, his contract with the Vikings proves that. As I said, Smith right now is ????? same as Kirk was when he got the starter job. All that's been done here is, replacing of a pretty good QB with another one, albeit at more cost than some preferred and that leads me to conclude with what seems to be a theme here....SO WHAT???

 

[skinsdad62]

1. OK, well, except for your last line, nice rewording of what I wrote.

2. Well, 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9, IS THE BAR, why? because that is precisely what we got with Kirk as QB here. Folks can have all of the "expectations" that they choose to have, just as long as they realize that there's nothing in real terms to base that upon other than hope and/or supposition. Cousins was vilified and lauded for his efforts here, IMO vilified because he didn't meet some unrealistic goals, lauded because he was made out to be more than he was. It would NOT be "technically" better to meet and exceed what Kirk gave us, it would by every metric, be, ACTUALLY BETTER!!

3. So what?? POOR ole' multimillionaire Kirk was and continues to be downplayed, want to know something? he deserved every bit of it from those who saw him as less than what others did. Poor ole' multimillionaire Kirk was also lauded as the "Apparent" by those who should have, but, didn't know better SO What??? H.E.'S G.O.N.E!! has been since 2015. I told you all back then and few if any wanted to believe it. I told you all that trading him, 3 straight years, would be in the best interest of this franchise, few if any wanted to believe it. SIGNING HIM TO A LTD WAS NOT AN OPTION, his contract with the Vikings proves that. As I said, Smith right now is ????? same as Kirk was when he got the starter job. All that's been done here is, replacing of a pretty good QB with another one, albeit at more cost than some preferred and that leads me to conclude with what seems to be a theme here....SO WHAT???

The bar is playoff wins not treading water . I was told I will get better and that is the standard , nfc title game or it’s failure

 

[Stymietee]

The bar is playoff wins not treading water . I was told I will get better and that is the standard , nfc title game or it’s failure

You're just making that up. Outside of the Gibbs era, there is zero precedent for anything other than mediocrity or worse in the history of this franchise.

Let's keep in mind that the comparison is between Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith.

Kirk Cousins as a 3 year starter here...9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9

That then IS the bar

Alex Smith as a possible 3 year starter here...TBD

 

[Rowdy]

The bar is playoff wins not treading water . I was told I will get better and that is the standard , nfc title game or it’s failure

NFC seems to be loaded

 

[skinsdad62]

You're just making that up. Outside of the Gibbs era, there is zero precedent for anything other than mediocrity or worse in the history of this franchise.

Let's keep in mind that the comparison is between Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith.

Kirk Cousins as a 3 year starter here...9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9

That then IS the bar

Alex Smith as a possible 3 year starter here...TBD

the bar is winning superbowls not treading water . we havent reached the bar much but its the bar none the less

 

[Sportster 72]

You're just making that up. Outside of the Gibbs era, there is zero precedent for anything other than mediocrity or worse in the history of this franchise.

Let's keep in mind that the comparison is between Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith.

Kirk Cousins as a 3 year starter here...9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9

That then IS the bar

Alex Smith as a possible 3 year starter here...TBD

Did you make correction for the games the offense with Cousin's at QB gave the team the lead late or drove them into position for a winning (even game tying) FG only to have the D or the kicker blow it?

My reason for this post has nothing to do with Cousins or Smith. I have said this over and over and over. One guy does not win or lose a game. But over and over and over I see this same stupid metric as if ONE guy has complete control of a 60 minute game.

The season will play out later this year. Then we will all have a better idea how things went for a lot of guys and not just these two.

This is not just pointed at you Sty, lots of people use this same type of stat. Anyone thing Sonny Jurgensen, Dan Marino or Warren Moon sucked?

 

[Stymietee]

the bar is winning superbowls not treading water . we havent reached the bar much but its the bar none the less

I would swear that the debate here was between Cousins and Smith coupled with how each one does as QB in D.C.. You guys have been debating this for some time now remember? Some of you set a "bar" for Smith based upon how well you projected this team to do had Kirk stayed, that is a fact. Now it's winning Superbowls, a "Bar" that Kirk Cousins never came close to attaining. I see.

 

[Stymietee]

Did you make correction for the games the offense with Cousin's at QB gave the team the lead late or drove them into position for a winning (even game tying) FG only to have the D or the kicker blow it?

My reason for this post has nothing to do with Cousins or Smith. I have said this over and over and over. One guy does not win or lose a game. But over and over and over I see this same stupid metric as if ONE guy has complete control of a 60 minute game.

The season will play out later this year. Then we will all have a better idea how things went for a lot of guys and not just these two.

This is not just pointed at you Sty, lots of people use this same type of stat. Anyone thing Sonny Jurgensen, Dan Marino or Warren Moon sucked?

I know, I pointed out this very thing in an earlier post. It's a team game, and right now no one knows how well or how poorly Smith will perform here in D.C.

 

[Sharkinva]

I would swear that the debate here was between Cousins and Smith coupled with how each one does as QB in D.C.. You guys have been debating this for some time now remember? Some of you set a "bar" for Smith based upon how well you projected this team to do had Kirk stayed, that is a fact. Now it's winning Superbowls, a "Bar" that Kirk Cousins never came close to attaining. I see.

SO just to make sure I smell what you are trying to cook here....

You are basically saying that the BAR that was set for Cousins as our starting QB has little or no bearing on what should be the BAR for Smith. In fact the BAR for Smith should simply be to finish higher than Cousins, or at least as well as a Cousins lead team did, which would actually mean success??

That about sum it up??

 

[Stymietee]

SO just to make sure I smell what you are trying to cook here....

You are basically saying that the BAR that was set for Cousins as our starting QB has little or no bearing on what should be the BAR for Smith. In fact the BAR for Smith should simply be to finish higher than Cousins, or at least as well as a Cousins lead team did, which would actually mean success??

That about sum it up??

You're totally off base...there was no bar set for Cousins. Cousins set the bar himself after posting 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 records as a starter here. The ONLY "BAR" for Smith is improving or not on that. The rest of those supposed "bars" are fictional. It's a team game man.

 

[Mitziman]

I would swear that the debate here was between Cousins and Smith coupled with how each one does as QB in D.C.. You guys have been debating this for some time now remember? Some of you set a "bar" for Smith based upon how well you projected this team to do had Kirk stayed, that is a fact. Now it's winning Superbowls, a "Bar" that Kirk Cousins never came close to attaining. I see.

Sty, "the bar" moved when The Redskins made the trade for Alex. Members of that particular club had KC signing a LTD years ago, and are trying to save face.

Basically, KC has been a .500 QB over the last three seasons as the Redskins starting QB. And yet, that club expects Alex to take us where KC never did?...you don't make those cynical statements, unless you are a member of that exclusive club.

 

[Mitziman]

so what are we trying to be competitive for ? the 500 club ? avg is avg

my initial post to gk's silly post had nothing to do with this team being average. you have spun this in to something else...imagine that.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sty, "the bar" moved when The Redskins made the trade for Alex. Members of that particular club had KC signing a LTD years ago, and are trying to save face.

Basically, KC has been a .500 QB over the last three seasons as the Redskins starting QB. And yet, that club expects Alex to take us where KC never did?...you don't make those cynical statements, unless you are a member of that exclusive club.

NO sir, the bar was set over the past three years when the ABC club constantly pushed the line that Cousins wasnt worth a long term deal because he couldnt carry the team. He couldnt come through in the clutch, and he couldnt lead the team to a playoffs win/Super Bowl.

So as far as Im concerned, thats the bar. If Smith is the better QB as some have said. He should be able to achieve these things yes??

 

[Mitziman]

NO sir, the bar was set over the past three years when the ABC club constantly pushed the line that Cousins wasnt worth a long term deal because he couldnt carry the team. He couldnt come through in the clutch, and he couldnt lead the team to a playoffs win/Super Bowl.

So as far as Im concerned, thats the bar. If Smith is the better QB as some have said. He should be able to achieve these things yes??

the sooner you realize that KC wasn't signing a LTD with anyone, the faster you and the club will be able to move on from this nonsense.

httr my brother.

 

[Sharkinva]

the sooner you realize that KC wasn't signing a LTD with anyone, the faster you and the club will be able to move on from this nonsense.

httr my brother.

What part of holding Smith to the standards that would have MADE Cousins worthy in the eyes of the masses do you find unfair??

And I agree Cousins was never going to sign a long term deal in DC, because DC didnt want him long term.