USA Today predicts us 5-11

[Yo Tee]

I mean...youre on the skins board talking about how disapointing theyll be this year and when people are correcting things you have wrong your responses are basically, "yea well thats just not how i see it".

And sure we all can have our opinions. But if your opinions cant be logically backed up with facts...maybe the people telling you youre wrong arent the problem...

My opinions are based on facts, which I've supplied numerous times on here. Let's just agree to disagree and see how the season plays out.

 

[Yo Tee]

S

So let me get this straight. You go on the Cowboys board, the eagles board and this board and you keep getting dissed. 3 for 3. Maybe the posters on all these boards aren't the problem? There appears to be one common denominator. You might think about trying a different tactic. This current one isn't working so well for you.

No, all Cowboys and Eagles fans are known to be ignorant and get defensive when they aren't told their team is the greatest. Didn't go on any other boards, just my personal experience with those fans.

 

[gkekoa]

My opinions are based on facts, which I've supplied numerous times on here. Let's just agree to disagree and see how the season plays out.

Some fact...some not so much.

 

[j_y19]

No, all Cowboys and Eagles fans are known to be ignorant and get defensive when they aren't told their team is the greatest. Didn't go on any other boards, just my personal experience with those fans.

I think I see your problem. All Cowboys and eagles fans are ignorant and get defensive.....ALL? That's like me saying all Steelers fans are disillusioned assholes as I have certainly met a couple that are. Would that be accurate, or a "fact", as you state it? Do you think if I went on a Steelers board and made this claim I would get crap back?

 

[Yo Tee]

Some fact...some not so much.

Mostly facts. Only opinion I've had that wasn't backed up by facts was the o-line being questionable. Fine. Take that out. Every other opinion, I had facts to back up why I think the way I do.

 

[Yo Tee]

I think I see your problem. All Cowboys and eagles fans are ignorant and get defensive.....ALL? That's like me saying all Steelers fans are disillusioned assholes as I have certainly met a couple that are. Would that be accurate, or a "fact", as you state it? Do you think if I went on a Steelers board and made this claim I would get crap back?

Omg, it's semantics. I said that was based on my personal experience with those fans. So in my personal experience, those fans are argumentative, ignorant and get defensive when you don't tell them what they want to hear. It's the same here with MOST of the people here. But like I've said, let's agree to disagree and see how the season progresses.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Mostly facts. Only opinion I've had that wasn't backed up by facts was the o-line being questionable. Fine. Take that out. Every other opinion, I had facts to back up why I think the way I do.

And Tomsula not being a good D line coach because he did poorly as 49ers head coach. Anyone who knows anything about the NFL knows that good position coaches quite often don't make good head coaches. Anyone who really knows anything about the Redskins would realize that any move away from the Joe Barry regime has to be an upgrade.

I guess that my biggest issue with you is that you pretend to know the ins & outs of every team when you really just appear to base everything off stats & other media reports. As a comparison - I would not attempt to analyze the Steelers since I don't really know that much about the team (as compared to a fan or someone who covers the team for a living). Ditto for you & your analysis of the Redskins. I don't really care if you view them as having a losing record (which they could have) - my major issue is with your supporting evidence which is flawed at best.

 

[Yo Tee]

And Tomsula not being a good D line coach because he did poorly as 49ers head coach. Anyone who knows anything about the NFL knows that good position coaches quite often don't make good head coaches. Anyone who really knows anything about the Redskins would realize that any move away from the Joe Barry regime has to be an upgrade.

I guess that my biggest issue with you is that you pretend to know the ins & outs of every team when you really just appear to base everything off stats & other media reports. As a comparison - I would not attempt to analyze the Steelers since I don't really know that much about the team (as compared to a fan or someone who covers the team for a living). Ditto for you & your analysis of the Redskins. I don't really care if you view them as having a losing record (which they could have) - my major issue is with your supporting evidence which is flawed at best.

I don't pretend to know everything. I've done enough research on every team in the league based on signings, departures, the draft and stats from last year to form my own opinions. I also know that from 2007-2010, Manusky and Tomsula were in the same positions they are now with the San Francisco 49ers.

In 2007, the 49ers defense were ranked:
32nd in TO%
26th in length of possession from opposing offense
29th in team interceptions
25th in total yards allowed

To play devil's advocate, the offense was ranked 32nd in the league in 10 different categories so the whole team sucked that year.

In 2008, the 49ers defense were ranked:

28th in total turnovers
28th in fumbles lost
28th in TO%

To play devil's advocate, the offense was ranked 32nd in 3 different categories so the whole team sucked that year too.

In 2009, the 49ers defense were ranked:

5th in team turnovers
2nd in fewest passing TDs allowed
15th in total yards allowed
8th in TO%

So this year, the 49ers defense was actually pretty good

In 2010, the 49ers defense were ranked:

25th in total turnovers
21st in passing TDs allowed
24th in passing yards allowed
23rd in TO%

To play devil's advocate, the defense was very strong against the running game, being a top 10 defense in practically all categories.

Manusky then left to the Chargers or Colts I forget which one. But Tomsula stayed as the D-line coach.

In 2011, the 49ers defense were ranked:

1st in 8 different defensive categories and outside the top 10 in just 3 major categories

Arguably, that could of been due to the addition of Jim Harbaugh as head coach and Vic Fangio as DC.

In 2012, once again, the 49ers defense was ranked in the top 5 in at least 10 different categories.
In 2013, top 10 in at least 15 different defensive categories.
In 2014, top 10 in 13 different defensive categories.
In 2015, Tomsula's the head coach and the defense is back down to ranking below the top 25 in 14 different categories.

Once Manusky left and was replaced with Fangio, the 49ers defense was so much better. Tomsula and Manusky together had a horrid run at San Francisco, aside from 2009. It can be argued that Vic Fangio made the 49ers the defense that was part of that great 2-3 year run and made it to the Super Bowl and 2 straight NFC title games. The defense of Tomsula and Manusky were among the worst in most defensive categories. From 2007-2010, the 49ers were 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10. No, it wasn't just the defense because the offense was horrid as well. But the defense that Tomsula and Manusky ran didn't help. When Manusky left, from 2011-2014, 13-3, 11-4-1, 12-4 and 8-8. Arguably, the additions of Jim Harbuah and Vic Fangio, along with the departure of Manusky helped the 49ers be the powerhouse that they were in that time span. Tomsula took over as head coach in 2015 and the 49ers are back down to 5-11, once again, last in a variety of defensive categories.

So no, I don't know the ins and outs of everything, but I know the research I do and I have my stat-backed reasons as to why I'm not confident in your team's hiring decisions on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Problem I have with stats predicting future results is the axiom, week to week league. Impossible to account for health, heart or even sheer luck with the bounce of the ball. Stats certainly help and can be useful, but the beauty of football is the many variables that are impossible to measure.

Personally, I enjoy all opinions (especially those who are fans from other teams) and the ensuing discussions.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

My take on the NFCE is that it is impossible to correctly identify how the division records will end up. History shows that this division is predictably unpredictable. I wouldn't be shocked at any of the 4 teams winning the division myself.

 

[gkekoa]

Mostly facts. Only opinion I've had that wasn't backed up by facts was the o-line being questionable. Fine. Take that out. Every other opinion, I had facts to back up why I think the way I do.

Well, your opinions have changed since the beginning, or at least your reasoning.

 

[Yo Tee]

Problem I have with stats predicting future results is the axiom, week to week league. Impossible to account for health, heart or even sheer luck with the bounce of the ball. Stats certainly help and can be useful, but the beauty of football is the many variables that are impossible to measure.

Personally, I enjoy all opinions (especially those who are fans from other teams) and the ensuing discussions.

Exactly. These are all just discussions or possibilities. These aren't discussions during the season or during the playoffs. The pre-season hasn't even started yet and people are so uptight over this stuff already. If you can't have a discussion with someone with differing opinions, then you can't talk to anyone aside from people who agree with you and that's a boring conversation lol

 

[j_y19]

Omg, it's semantics. I said that was based on my personal experience with those fans. So in my personal experience, those fans are argumentative, ignorant and get defensive when you don't tell them what they want to hear. It's the same here with MOST of the people here. But like I've said, let's agree to disagree and see how the season progresses.

Funny. It appears to me that you are the one that got argumentative and defensive (some might say ignorant but I won't go that far) when it was pointed out that your "facts" weren't all accurate. Instead of saying that you appreciate the correction, you held fast, at least up until your last few posts where you conceded that one fact (the OL strength) might have been wrong. Here's the deal. You don't know this team as well as 90% of the posters on this board, just like 90% of us don't know the Steelers probably like you do. What you do know, you get from raw stats (which can be misleading both ways) and what ever the media publishes (of which there are always agendas). We, who regularly post here, live and die with this team. We know every player's strength and weaknesses, as well as the FO and coaching staff. Most of us are realistic about where this team is right now, which is somewhere around a .500 team, give or take a few. We may very well end up with 5 wins. We may also end up with 10. As Socal pointed out above, its not your opinion as to our W/L record that is the issue. You are entitled to that. Its your analysis of how you came to it. Its plain flawed in some areas. This has been pointed out to you by more than a few.

So you are not going to get a lot of love on this board or any other team's board if this is your modus operandi. We welcome fans from other teams as long as they bring intelligent postings and are civil. But many on here are also not going to let obvious errors and omissions about this team be posted on our board without response. Its not being argumentative, its correcting the record. If you choose to not factor in the corrected info into your opinion that is your prerogative. But you shouldn't be surprised if you are then accused of acting like a troll who has come to argue more that understand the capabilities of this team to make intelligent opinions based on real facts.

 

[Yo Tee]

Well, your opinions have changed since the beginning, or at least your reasoning.

My opinions haven't changed, if anything, I think the Redskins MIGHT do better than my original prediction of 3-13 haha. I also didn't think I would need to list every single reason why I think the way I do. I figured others would do their own research. I've listed time and time again my reasonings, the stats that back me up, played devil's advocate a couple times, admitted that I forgot about Josh Doctson, the O-line being questionable, there's no stats to back me up on that, that's just my lack of confidence in the Redskins as a team. Tomsula and Manusky, I've written a book about that. I've given reasons about the additions to the defense and why I'm not impressed with them. I've talked about how hard their schedule looks with facts to back me up there. I literally have nothing else to say.

 

[Yo Tee]

Funny. It appears to me that you are the one that got argumentative and defensive (some might say ignorant but I won't go that far) when it was pointed out that your "facts" weren't all accurate. Instead of saying that you appreciate the correction, you held fast, at least up until your last few posts where you conceded that one fact (the OL strength) might have been wrong. Here's the deal. You don't know this team as well as 90% of the posters on this board, just like 90% of us don't know the Steelers probably like you do. What you do know, you get from raw stats (which can be misleading both ways) and what ever the media publishes (of which there are always agendas). We, who regularly post here, live and die with this team. We know every player's strength and weaknesses, as well as the FO and coaching staff. Most of us are realistic about where this team is right now, which is somewhere around a .500 team, give or take a few. We may very well end up with 5 wins. We may also end up with 10. As Socal pointed out above, its not your opinion as to our W/L record that is the issue. You are entitled to that. Its your analysis of how you came to it. Its plain flawed in some areas. This has been pointed out to you by more than a few.

So you are not going to get a lot of love on this board or any other team's board if this is your modus operandi. We welcome fans from other teams as long as they bring intelligent postings and are civil. But many on here are also not going to let obvious errors and omissions about this team be posted on our board without response. Its not being argumentative, its correcting the record. If you choose to not factor in the corrected info into your opinion that is your prerogative. But you shouldn't be surprised if you are then accused of acting like a troll who has come to argue more that understand the capabilities of this team to make intelligent opinions based on real facts.

I didn't expect love, I expected mutual respect. If I'm getting hate on my "O-line is questionable" comment then fine. But everything else, I've backed with stats spanning the last few years. I understand the capabilities of this team. I also understand that the defensive coaching staff hiring of Tomsula and Manusky are less then stellar, the schedule looks to be a tough one, I'm not impressed by McClain and McGee, the running game is uncertain to even some Redskins fans and even if you point out R.Kelley, he had 1 good game last year. All of these have been pointed out, with facts to back it up. So once again, the o-line statement, fine, but everything else I've said has had stats to back it up and with the coaching hirings, I went back 10 years! You're not gonna change my mind. My opinion is what it is and I've stated the reason why it is what it is. You don't have to like them, but I would appreciate if you respect them like I've respected yours.

 

[gkekoa]

My opinions haven't changed, if anything, I think the Redskins MIGHT do better than my original prediction of 3-13 haha. I also didn't think I would need to list every single reason why I think the way I do. I figured others would do their own research. I've listed time and time again my reasonings, the stats that back me up, played devil's advocate a couple times, admitted that I forgot about Josh Doctson, the O-line being questionable, there's no stats to back me up on that, that's just my lack of confidence in the Redskins as a team. Tomsula and Manusky, I've written a book about that. I've given reasons about the additions to the defense and why I'm not impressed with them. I've talked about how hard their schedule looks with facts to back me up there. I literally have nothing else to say.

If it is your opinion, then you should list your reasons for belief. I can't research your reasoning without knowing your reasoning.

You bad mouth Tomsula and Manusky but don't factor in Joe Barry. You credit Harbough but discount the 49ers defense was improving before his Harbough's arrival according to your own research.

 

[Yo Tee]

If it is your opinion, then you should list your reasons for belief. I can't research your reasoning without knowing your reasoning.

You bad mouth Tomsula and Manusky but don't factor in Joe Barry. You credit Harbough but discount the 49ers defense was improving before his Harbough's arrival according to your own research.

Why would I factor in Joe Barry? He wasn't with the 49ers during that time and he's not with the Redskins. So what does he have to do with this? Also, they improved in 2009 but regressed in 2010 back to where they were in 2007-2008. Harbaugh didn't come in til 2011. Right out of the gate, the team was 1000% better. Offense and defense. Arguably because of the arrival of Harbaugh but also, arguably, because of the replacement of Manusky with Fangio. So let's look at the history of your beloved Defensive Coordinator.

Look at the defense of the Chargers when Manusky went there from San Francisco in 2011. Ranked in the bottom 5 in at least 3 defensive categories and they went 8-8. He left San Diego to go to Indianapolis from 2012-2015. In 2012, the defense was one of the worst in turnovers caused, fumbles caused, rushing yards, avg yards allowed per drive, turnover % and 31st in yards per rushing attempt allowed. Devil's advocate again, the defense improved in 2013 and 2014 and they went 11-5 from 2012-2014, mostly because of Andrew Luck and the offense. But, like stated before, the defense did improve. But in 2015, the defense regressed, finishing 25th in rushing yards allowed, 26th in total yards allowed, and the 8th most points given up by a defense. Because of that, he was fired by Indianapolis. Washington picked up him 2 weeks later but not at DC, as the linebackers coach. We already know how that went. 32nd in first downs allowed, 28th in total yards allowed, 28th in rushing tds allowed, 32nd in avg plays allowed per drive and avg yards allowed per drive. Their defense allowed more than 30 points in a game 6 times last year, allowed more than 400 total yards in a game 8 times last year including against teams like the Eagles, Bengals and Bears and allowed over 100 rushing yards 8 times including games against teams like Browns, Eagles (twice) and Bears. No defensive touchdowns, one of only 8 teams without a defensive touchdown. But once again, to play devil's advocate, they were in the top 10 in the league in combined tackles and sacks and in the top half of the league in interceptions.

Based on Manusky's and Tomsula's coaching defenses, my confidence level is very very low. Especially with Manusky.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Why would I factor in Joe Barry? He wasn't with the 49ers during that time and he's not with the Redskins. So what does he have to do with this?

Are you freaking serious? You factor in Joe Barry because he was the Redskins D coordinator during the last few seasons for the Redskins. Many current players either hinted or directly stated that he held them back to a degree. You stated that when the Redskins didn't move the ball on offense or turned the ball over that their defense was unable to stop the other team. Guess who ran that defense? Tomsula? Manusky? Nope - it was Barry.

How can a conversation on how the Redskins will improve on defense not include a discussion of Barry? Once again flawed logic on your part. Again - doesn't mean that the Redskins will have a winning season - just means that along with personnel moves it MAY make a difference. Also - please spare us your debating rules when your ultimate pt is to slam the Redskins as much as possible (quite obvious). Kind of like your flawed argument about your hero Kaep.

 

[gkekoa]

Why would I factor in Joe Barry? He wasn't with the 49ers during that time and he's not with the Redskins. So what does he have to do with this? Also, they improved in 2009 but regressed in 2010 back to where they were in 2007-2008. Harbaugh didn't come in til 2011. Right out of the gate, the team was 1000% better. Offense and defense. Arguably because of the arrival of Harbaugh but also, arguably, because of the replacement of Manusky with Fangio. So let's look at the history of your beloved Defensive Coordinator.

Look at the defense of the Chargers when Manusky went there from San Francisco in 2011. Ranked in the bottom 5 in at least 3 defensive categories and they went 8-8. He left San Diego to go to Indianapolis from 2012-2015. In 2012, the defense was one of the worst in turnovers caused, fumbles caused, rushing yards, avg yards allowed per drive, turnover % and 31st in yards per rushing attempt allowed. Devil's advocate again, the defense improved in 2013 and 2014 and they went 11-5 from 2012-2014, mostly because of Andrew Luck and the offense. But, like stated before, the defense did improve. But in 2015, the defense regressed, finishing 25th in rushing yards allowed, 26th in total yards allowed, and the 8th most points given up by a defense. Because of that, he was fired by Indianapolis. Washington picked up him 2 weeks later but not at DC, as the linebackers coach. We already know how that went. 32nd in first downs allowed, 28th in total yards allowed, 28th in rushing tds allowed, 32nd in avg plays allowed per drive and avg yards allowed per drive. Their defense allowed more than 30 points in a game 6 times last year, allowed more than 400 total yards in a game 8 times last year including against teams like the Eagles, Bengals and Bears and allowed over 100 rushing yards 8 times including games against teams like Browns, Eagles (twice) and Bears. No defensive touchdowns, one of only 8 teams without a defensive touchdown. But once again, to play devil's advocate, they were in the top 10 in the league in combined tackles and sacks and in the top half of the league in interceptions.

Based on Manusky's and Tomsula's coaching defenses, my confidence level is very very low. Especially with Manusky.

You have to factor in Barry because that is who was replaced. The replacement doesn't have to be great. He just has to be better than the person he is replacing for improvement.

There were obvious improvements on that 49ers defense and to discount some coaches and give all the credit to others is foolish.

Now, I am not saying Manusky is great because I too am a stats guy. I can't for the life of me understand why we keep going after unsuccessful Charger coaches. I see the combination as an improvement over Barry and I hope they are more.

 

[Yo Tee]

Are you freaking serious? You factor in Joe Barry because he was the Redskins D coordinator during the last few seasons for the Redskins. Many current players either hinted or directly stated that he held them back to a degree. You stated that when the Redskins didn't move the ball on offense or turned the ball over that their defense was unable to stop the other team. Guess who ran that defense? Tomsula? Manusky? Nope - it was Barry.

How can a conversation on how the Redskins will improve on defense not include a discussion of Barry? Once again flawed logic on your part. Again - doesn't mean that the Redskins will have a winning season - just means that along with personnel moves it MAY make a difference. Also - please spare us your debating rules when your ultimate pt is to slam the Redskins as much as possible (quite obvious). Kind of like your flawed argument about your hero Kaep.

It's not flawed logic because the defense sucked last year and they replaced Barry with a guy who has had sucky defenses for 8 out of the last 10 years. No improvement at all. That's my point on Manusky.