Winners tonight: Minnesota and Charlotte

[tlance]

Are you on crack??

Dunn fucking sucks. He can't even shoot free throws.

The different between Patton and Markanen isn't all that either. Patton fits perfectly with what the wolves need to add.

Last year Minny offered Rubio, LaVine and Dunn(the pick but the Bulls loved Dunn). Now they keep Rubio and deal LaVine coming off an ACL tear and Dunn when he shows he's simply not any good.

It was Butler for a torn acl volume scorer with no D and a shitty Pg. And Patton/Rubio for Markanen.

This level of robbery is going to have real bank robbers using it as their defense case to walk free.

No, I am not on crack. Thanks for asking.

I believe that the ONLY appropriate goal in rebuilding is to eventually assemble a team capable of contending for a championship. The Wolves are not winning one either this year or next. So, if Butler does not resign, they will have jumped the gun because their window isn't open yet.

As for Minnesota being a possible free agent destination, good luck with that!

 

[tlance]

Butler resigning would be very nice, but even if he leaves the value of the trade is massive. When Butlers contract comes up Wiggins and Towns will be 24/25, just hitting their primes, and if the put up 3 good years and a decent playoff run then they are far more likely to attract other FA's.

If Butler leaves after this contract Wolves will still be sitting on 2 stars(I assume Wiggins learns defense from Butler and hits the next level) and have room to find that third star still. Wolves are well set up to be a title contender when the Warriors run is done whether Butler stays or goes.

Not so sure about that.

 

[PnkPanther]

I could see Butler staying in Minnesota long term, so long as Thibs starts winning more games over there. It'd be nice to see Minny doing something after being mediocre for so long.

That's extremely complementary

 

[PnkPanther]

If Wiggins can step up his a bit more and Rubio can stay on the court and pick up his shooting this team should be pretty good.

Probably a top 4 seed in the West if that happens.

They have no depth. Top 4 seed is doubtful unless Towns and Wiggins make huge jumps

I think the Big Kat well though

 

[tlance]

They really didn't give up that much. They gave up a rookie PG who can't shoot, a athletic 2 that is coming off season ending injury who has yet to develop into the player people think he can be and they swapped draft picks.
I thought they snookered the Bulls.

Wasn't Dunn and Lavine the offer that Minnesota turned down last year? If a future pick was added in, it wouldn't have been top 10, because the TWolves would have been much better.

Dunn was thought by many to be the best guard in last year's draft, and a potential future star. I am sorry, but I have not seen enough from him yet to rule that out. Super athletes like Dunn who are lacking on the skill side generally take a few years to put it all together.

All I am saying is that today anybody would grade the Love/Wiggins trade as a clear win for the Wolves. At the time, it was mutually beneficial. If 4 years from now, Dunn is developing into an allstar and Butler is in another city, the Wolves will regret the deal. We won't be able to accurately gauge it until 2020 at the earliest.

But yeah, it looks good for Minnesota today.

 

[flyerhawk]

They have no depth. Top 4 seed is doubtful unless Towns and Wiggins make huge jumps

I think the Big Kat well though

I think KAT will continue to progress. Wiggins is the big question mark.

If Wiggins can turn into a top 10 SF they would have 3 all-star level players. You can go a long way with that.

 

[Heatles84]

That's extremely complementary

I mean, you guys missed the playoffs for 13 straight years. If it makes you feel better, you guys now have a lot of promise.

 

[Hambombs]

Minnesota all ball out. I like it

 

[flyerhawk]

Wasn't Dunn and Lavine the offer that Minnesota turned down last year? If a future pick was added in, it wouldn't have been top 10, because the TWolves would have been much better.

Dunn was thought by many to be the best guard in last year's draft, and a potential future star. I am sorry, but I have not seen enough from him yet to rule that out. Super athletes like Dunn who are lacking on the skill side generally take a few years to put it all together.

All I am saying is that today anybody would grade the Love/Wiggins trade as a clear win for the Wolves. At the time, it was mutually beneficial. If 4 years from now, Dunn is developing into an allstar and Butler is in another city, the Wolves will regret the deal. We won't be able to accurately gauge it until 2020 at the earliest.

But yeah, it looks good for Minnesota today.

So far EVERYTHING I've read has said that the Bulls screwed this up. ESPN wasn't pulling any punches...

Trade grades: Which team flunked the Jimmy Butler deal?

Minnesota got an A+
Chicago got an F

They traded one of the top 15 or so players in the league. In return they got the No. 7 pick, a 23 year old guard who struggled badly shooting as a rookie, and an athletic swing who is coming off of an ACL surgery. Oh and they threw in the #16 pick along with Butler.

Now factor in that Lavine is a restricted FA next year and you are looking at a huge payday for him.

Is is possible that this trade works out for the Bulls? Sure. Maybe Markannen turns into the next Dirk Nowitski and Zach Levine turns a real stud. That could happen but it still seems like an awful lot to give up to get that haul.

 

[tlance]

Y

So far EVERYTHING I've read has said that the Bulls screwed this up. ESPN wasn't pulling any punches...

Trade grades: Which team flunked the Jimmy Butler deal?

Minnesota got an A+
Chicago got an F

They traded one of the top 15 or so players in the league. In return they got the No. 7 pick, a 23 year old guard who struggled badly shooting as a rookie, and an athletic swing who is coming off of an ACL surgery. Oh and they threw in the #16 pick along with Butler.

Now factor in that Lavine is a restricted FA next year and you are looking at a huge payday for him.

Is is possible that this trade works out for the Bulls? Sure. Maybe Markannen turns into the next Dirk Nowitski and Zach Levine turns a real stud. That could happen but it still seems like an awful lot to give up to get that haul.

I agree with most of your analysis. Could the Bulls have gotten more? Sure. But, they need to rebuild and the only teams out there who might have been interested in Butler with the type of assets the Bulls would needed were the Celtics, Wolves and Lakers. Trading Butler for an all star caliber player (like I have seen suggested by some media) makes literally no sense. If they want an all star, they should have simply kept Butler.

As for the other teams, the Lakers weren't likely to give up #2, and the Celtics kind of didn't seem that interested. They appear inclined to wait out the Cavs and Warriors. The Celtics look like the ideal partner, but if they wouldn't bite, the Bulls options were far more limited in reality than what is being reported.

 

[PnkPanther]

Wasn't Dunn and Lavine the offer that Minnesota turned down last year? If a future pick was added in, it wouldn't have been top 10, because the TWolves would have been much better.

Dunn was thought by many to be the best guard in last year's draft, and a potential future star. I am sorry, but I have not seen enough from him yet to rule that out. Super athletes like Dunn who are lacking on the skill side generally take a few years to put it all together.

All I am saying is that today anybody would grade the Love/Wiggins trade as a clear win for the Wolves. At the time, it was mutually beneficial. If 4 years from now, Dunn is developing into an allstar and Butler is in another city, the Wolves will regret the deal. We won't be able to accurately gauge it until 2020 at the earliest.

But yeah, it looks good for Minnesota today.

Dunn's already 23, ancient by most 2nd year player standards

 

[flyerhawk]

Y


I agree with most of your analysis. Could the Bulls have gotten more? Sure. But, they need to rebuild and the only teams out there who might have been interested in Butler with the type of assets the Bulls would needed were the Celtics, Wolves and Lakers. Trading Butler for an all star caliber player (like I have seen suggested by some media) makes literally no sense. If they want an all star, they should have simply kept Butler.

As for the other teams, the Lakers weren't likely to give up #2, and the Celtics kind of didn't seem that interested. They appear inclined to wait out the Cavs and Warriors. The Celtics look like the ideal partner, but if they wouldn't bite, the Bulls options were far more limited in reality than what is being reported.

The thing is, the Bulls didn't need to trade Butler yesterday. He's got 2 years left on his contract. They have an entire season ahead of them where they could deal him. Why trade when his trade value is so low? Why not wait until FA hits and see who winds up not getting the player they wanted?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

No, I am not on crack. Thanks for asking.

I believe that the ONLY appropriate goal in rebuilding is to eventually assemble a team capable of contending for a championship. The Wolves are not winning one either this year or next. So, if Butler does not resign, they will have jumped the gun because their window isn't open yet.

As for Minnesota being a possible free agent destination, good luck with that!

Except for the fact the best way to reach that goal is by doing what we just did.

They were not going to win these next two years with LaVine or Dunn. Dunn is fucking terrible, again...the dude cannot shoot.

Thankfully you are not a GM. Wolves made out like bandits. Got a better deal then what they woulda got last year.

Fantastic trade. If you can't see it, I really don't know what to say.

 

[Mecca]

I don't consider Wiggins a start. At least not yet. He's a high profile player but he needs to step up his game. Maybe he does that this year.

He's gonna get a max this Summer.

 

[flyerhawk]

Except for the fact the best way to reach that goal is by doing what we just did.

They were not going to win these next two years with LaVine or Dunn. Dunn is fucking terrible, again...the dude cannot shoot.

Thankfully you are not a GM. Wolves made out like bandits. Got a better deal then what they woulda got last year.

Fantastic trade. If you can't see it, I really don't know what to say.

Yeah. This is a straight robbery by the Wolves. They instantly become a threat in the West. Not good enough to beat the Warriors, of course, but they could be a Clippers level good.

 

[tlance]

Except for the fact the best way to reach that goal is by doing what we just did.

They were not going to win these next two years with LaVine or Dunn. Dunn is fucking terrible, again...the dude cannot shoot.

Thankfully you are not a GM. Wolves made out like bandits. Got a better deal then what they woulda got last year.

Fantastic trade. If you can't see it, I really don't know what to say.

Read my posts dude.

They are a 50 win team today. but, the next 2 years don't matter. 50 wins will get you a 2nd round exit at the hands of the Warriors. Congrats!

If I am The GM in Minnesoata, I am assembling a group that can can actually contend for a championship in 2020, when KAT and Wiggins are ready to roll. If Butler stays, they will be just that. If he leaves, well then, you are SOL. That is all I am saying.

You act like there is zero downside risk, when there is in fact plenty. 50 wins gets you nothing. Take it from me as a Wizards fan. My team tries to shortcut the process a few years ago and look where it landed them.

But then again, I have been admiring the 6ers rebuild for years while most people have been crushing them. If you aren't building to win a ring, you are doing it wrong. Minnesota has some great pieces, but they will absolutely depend on Butler resigning in 2 years. They can't rely on FA acquisitions like some teams can.

 

[tlance]

Yeah. This is a straight robbery by the Wolves. They instantly become a threat in the West. Not good enough to beat the Warriors, of course, but they could be a Clippers level good.

Being Clippers level good is only a positive thing if there is room For improvement. For the Wolves, it depends on Butler sticking for more than 2 years. That is all i am saying.

 

[tlance]

The thing is, the Bulls didn't need to trade Butler yesterday. He's got 2 years left on his contract. They have an entire season ahead of them where they could deal him. Why trade when his trade value is so low? Why not wait until FA hits and see who winds up not getting the player they wanted?

His value is not low at all.

The thing most of you fail to grasp is that part of the bulls long term plan requires them to be bad right now. Keeping Butler for half a season will keep them out of the high lottery, which is where they want to be. The Bulls correctly assessed that this core was not good enough to contend, so they dealt Butler for future assets. Even if those assets all bust, it is still a positive move for the Bulls if it starts them down the path toward rebuilding.

Trading him for a player like Kevin Love would be really dumb. Much worse than the move they just made.

 

[flyerhawk]

Being Clippers level good is only a positive thing if there is room For improvement. For the Wolves, it depends on Butler sticking for more than 2 years. That is all i am saying.

yeah. Keeping Butler is critical to the deal.

 

[flyerhawk]

His value is not low at all.

The thing most of you fail to grasp is that part of the bulls long term plan requires them to be bad right now. Keeping Butler for half a season will keep them out of the high lottery, which is where they want to be. The Bulls correctly assessed that this core was not good enough to contend, so they dealt Butler for future assets. Even if those assets all bust, it is still a positive move for the Bulls if it starts them down the path toward rebuilding.

Trading him for a player like Kevin Love would be really dumb. Much worse than the move they just made.

Well one of two things.

1. His value is low as shown by the relatively paltry return they got for him. On paper they got fleeced.
2. They rejected other deals that may have looked better but they loved Dunn, Levine or Markannen so much that they took this deal instead.


I don't think they should have traded him for a player like Kevin Love. I think they should have traded him for Brooklyn's 2018 pick and some change. Or something similar from the Lakers, although that would have been their '19 pick.

Now I don't know what was actually being offered to them. But I find it hard to believe that there were only 3 teams that were willing to make a deal to bring in Jimmy Butler. And if the Bulls are planning on a tankapalooza, I'm not sure that getting a lottery pick this year makes all that much sense anyway.