Zimmer is Gonna Stay I hope Gruden Leaves

[cincygrad]

Hue's firing had nothing to do with Carson. It had everything to do with how he called out his players at the end of the season and his power trip leading up to the end of the season and his attempted power grab after the season.

Hue took a less talented version of a 2-14 and won 4 of his first 6 with a very mediocre quarterback. Unfortunately after an injury, a washed-up vet QB came off the couch and closed out the season losing 4 of 5, costing them any chance at the playoffs.

He is a great OC and good to very good head coach. His qb cost him his job. At some point, someone will likely interview him for another HC job.

FIFY.

 

[flamingrey]

I know it's pretty foreign on this board, but I try to center my opinions around reality.

 

[cincygrad]

Palmer didn't lose 4 of his last 5?

Or did Hue's mouth start those games?

 

[flamingrey]

That offense had everything to do with McFadden. He was the catalyst behind that entire team - offense and defense (ball control). Before McFadden got injured, they had one of the better defenses. Go figure.

Reality.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Hue's firing had nothing to do with Carson. It had everything to do with how he called out his players at the end of the season and his power trip leading up to the end of the season and his attempted power grab after the season.

Hue took a less talented version of a 2-14 team with a QB coming off the couch midseason to 8-8. He's looking pretty good right now.

He is a great OC and good to very good head coach. His mouth cost him his job. At some point, someone will likely interview him for another HC job.

They were a playoff contender until Carson had to become the QB, and since then, he went down hill.

That Carson trade hurt them in the way of picks, and talent at the QB level for several years.

Carson just is not what he used to be.

 

[flamingrey]

They were a playoff contender until Carson had to become the QB, and since then, he went down hill.

That Carson trade hurt them in the way of picks, and talent at the QB level for several years.

Carson just is not what he used to be.

They were a playoff contender until McFadden got injured.

And if you want to get real literal, they were playoff contenders until they lost in Week 17 against the Chargers.

The Raiders are better at QB than they've been in a decade and could possibly be for the next decade.

Carson isn't a top 3 QB like he was in 2005...at least we agree on something.

 

[vancelot23]

They had Jason Campbell. Acquired Carson Palmer. Not much difference in terms of improvement or getting worse. In terms of the trade: the Bengals clearly got the better of the deal. However, since the other option for Oakland was to play whatever crappy QB was behind Campbell, they really had to do something.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

They had Jason Campbell. Acquired Carson Palmer. Not much difference in terms of improvement or getting worse. In terms of the trade: the Bengals clearly got the better of the deal. However, since the other option for Oakland was to play whatever crappy QB was behind Campbell, they really had to do something.

I don't blame them for doming something once Campbell got hurt, but they overpaid, and Carson is not a top 10 QB anymore, and is only goign to regress. The trade hurt them, and since then they have been crap.

We would have got a 1st round pick had they made the AFC Championship game, which would have been a 29th to 30th pick? Instead we are getting like the 3rd pick in the second round, 35th pick. Not much different really. If they could have been playoff contenders, the price you could debate. Instead they gave up a mid 1st round pick and a very high 2nd round pick for a 1-4 record down the stretch to miss the playoffs and then the 3rd worst record in football the following year. Their future does not look great right now, at least for another 2 years.

 

[flamingrey]

I don't blame them for doming something once Campbell got hurt, but they overpaid, and Carson is not a top 10 QB anymore, and is only goign to regress. The trade hurt them, and since then they have been crap.

We would have got a 1st round pick had they made the AFC Championship game, which would have been a 29th to 30th pick? Instead we are getting like the 3rd pick in the second round, 35th pick. Not much different really. If they could have been playoff contenders, the price you could debate. Instead they gave up a mid 1st round pick and a very high 2nd round pick for a 1-4 record down the stretch to miss the playoffs and then the 3rd worst record in football the following year. Their future does not look great right now, at least for another 2 years.

1) That's what everyone on this board said going into this year. There was no regression. In fact, he got better in about every facet. He probably has a couple solid years left. He's still a mediocre QB, but not as bad as you're trying to make him out to be. And he's a much better option than Campbell, who is no better than a backup QB, which is exactly what he's doing now.

2) The trade hurt them from the fact that they have so many holes and they lost 2 draft picks. From a talent standpoint, they got much better with the trade. To try to correlate the trade with getting worse is no worse than a lie.

 

[vancelot23]

1) That's what everyone on this board said going into this year. There was no regression. In fact, he got better in about every facet. He probably has a couple solid years left. He's still a mediocre QB, but not as bad as you're trying to make him out to be. And he's a much better option than Campbell, who is no better than a backup QB, which is exactly what he's doing now.

2) The trade hurt them from the fact that they have so many holes and they lost 2 draft picks. From a talent standpoint, they got much better with the trade. To try to correlate the trade with getting worse is no worse than a lie.

This. There are two separate comparisons at play here. As far as going from Campbell's backup to Palmer: upgrade. From the standpoint of trading two draft picks for one player: loss.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

1) That's what everyone on this board said going into this year. There was no regression. In fact, he got better in about every facet. He probably has a couple solid years left. He's still a mediocre QB, but not as bad as you're trying to make him out to be. And he's a much better option than Campbell, who is no better than a backup QB, which is exactly what he's doing now.

2) The trade hurt them from the fact that they have so many holes and they lost 2 draft picks. From a talent standpoint, they got much better with the trade. To try to correlate the trade with getting worse is no worse than a lie.

I think Campbell was a pretty dang good QB before he got hurt. I would not rank Palmer much better than Campbell.

I am not butt hurt about Carson holding out anymore, I am just looking at hime without the blinders on. Carson is not all that anymore. Is Carson better than Jason Campbell's backup at the time? I would have to think so. Is Palmer much better than Campbell, not much. Campbell was winning, Palmer can't even win when McFadden is healthy. Whatever it is about Carson, his team does not rally around him and play hard. Maybe they feel Carson should be good enough to carry them, but they are dead wrong. At least they all played hard for Campbell.

After the last half of this season, I am not sure Dalton is any better than Palmer. At least Palmer can throw a long ball, but he doesn't seem a whole lot more accurate deep.

Maybe we can just get Mohammed Sanu to be our QB on deep fly patterns. lol

 

[flamingrey]

I think Campbell was a pretty dang good QB before he got hurt. I would not rank Palmer much better than Campbell.

I am not butt hurt about Carson holding out anymore, I am just looking at hime without the blinders on. Carson is not all that anymore. Is Carson better than Jason Campbell's backup at the time? I would have to think so. Is Palmer much better than Campbell, not much. Campbell was winning, Palmer can't even win when McFadden is healthy. Whatever it is about Carson, his team does not rally around him and play hard. Maybe they feel Carson should be good enough to carry them, but they are dead wrong. At least they all played hard for Campbell.

After the last half of this season, I am not sure Dalton is any better than Palmer. At least Palmer can throw a long ball, but he doesn't seem a whole lot more accurate deep.

Maybe we can just get Mohammed Sanu to be our QB on deep fly patterns. lol

Campbell was not and is not a good QB. He was a poor man's Alex Smith. Some call him the checkdown king.

McFadden was injured Carson's first season. Carson's second season they changed the offense back to the offense in McFadden's rookie season when he struggled with the zone blocking scheme and the exact same OC. McFadden was this year was not McFadden of last year. Heck, BJGE was better than him. Your statement is a twist on reality.

And your next statement on playing hard is pathetic. Don't make stuff up to try to make your point.

Oh, and I always knew Carson was better than Dalton. It was clear as day three quarters into his rookie season. Many people are finally beginning to come around.

 

[ckhokie]

I think Campbell was a pretty dang good QB before he got hurt. I would not rank Palmer much better than Campbell.

I am not butt hurt about Carson holding out anymore, I am just looking at hime without the blinders on.

This is what makes me think you don't actually watch football.

Campbell has been a bum from the first snap he took. NOTHING about his game is 'pretty dang good,' unless you're talking about him being a bust. Carson post knee is a hell of a lot better than Campbell pre-injuries. I would have rather had Carson this year than Dalton.

And I don't think you're going to convince anyone about not being butthurt about Carson. The butthurt thread has been stickied, contributed to all year, and no one is slow to nitpick every incompletion he threw.

 

[flamingrey]

Usually when someone has to qualify their comments with being unbiased, etc., they're only trying to convince themselves.

But at least he finally admits/confirms that in the past his assessments were with blinders on. I'm pretty sure back then he was claiming the same unbiased schtick.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

This is what makes me think you don't actually watch football.

Campbell has been a bum from the first snap he took. NOTHING about his game is 'pretty dang good,' unless you're talking about him being a bust. Carson post knee is a hell of a lot better than Campbell pre-injuries. I would have rather had Carson this year than Dalton.

And I don't think you're going to convince anyone about not being butthurt about Carson. The butthurt thread has been stickied, contributed to all year, and no one is slow to nitpick every incompletion he threw.

Campbells career was not great, until he got a chance in Oakland. Campbell was playing pretty dang good up until he got hurt in Oakland. If Campbell had not got hurt, Oakland runs away with that division last year.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Campbell was not and is not a good QB. He was a poor man's Alex Smith. Some call him the checkdown king.

McFadden was injured Carson's first season. Carson's second season they changed the offense back to the offense in McFadden's rookie season when he struggled with the zone blocking scheme and the exact same OC. McFadden was this year was not McFadden of last year. Heck, BJGE was better than him. Your statement is a twist on reality.

And your next statement on playing hard is pathetic. Don't make stuff up to try to make your point.

Oh, and I always knew Carson was better than Dalton. It was clear as day three quarters into his rookie season. Many people are finally beginning to come around.

1) Either way, is Carson winning with McFadden or not? Pretty fucking plain and simple man.

2) I was not making stuff up, I was making a possible suggestion as to why the team might be worse under Palmer than it was Campbell. Is it because the Raiders feel they don't have to play as hard because Palmer has the talent to carry them? You pointed out, they are willing to play for him in that article, so that is cool. Just means that Palmer's play makes Oakland worse, not because the rest of the team is not trying as hard.

3) Palmer is not "better" than Dalton, and if he is, it is very very marginal.

Palmer
61.1 Comp / 4,018 Yards / 7.11 YPA / 64 Long / 22 TD / 14 INT / 85.3 QBR

Dalton
62.3 Comp / 3,669 Yards / 6.95 YPA / 59 Long / 27 TD / 16 INT / 87.4 QBR


So you may want to keep "your" Carson Palmer blinders on, but in reality, you are nothing more than a Carson Palmer homer. If you just admit it to yourself, you will be happier with yourself. Kinda like when you came out of the closet. Life just seems easier doesn't it not having to hide it all the time? Not that you are very good at hiding it.

 

[flamingrey]

Campbells career was not great, until he got a chance in Oakland. Campbell was playing pretty dang good up until he got hurt in Oakland. If Campbell had not got hurt, Oakland runs away with that division last year.

No, if McFadden hadn't got injured, they would've ran away with the division.

Campbell had very mediocre stats that season.

 

[DanBengalfan]

All McFadden ever does is get injured.

 

[flamingrey]

1) Either way, is Carson winning with McFadden or not? Pretty fucking plain and simple man.

2) I was not making stuff up, I was making a possible suggestion as to why the team might be worse under Palmer than it was Campbell. Is it because the Raiders feel they don't have to play as hard because Palmer has the talent to carry them? You pointed out, they are willing to play for him in that article, so that is cool. Just means that Palmer's play makes Oakland worse, not because the rest of the team is not trying as hard.

3) Palmer is not "better" than Dalton, and if he is, it is very very marginal.

Palmer
61.1 Comp / 4,018 Yards / 7.11 YPA / 64 Long / 22 TD / 14 INT / 85.3 QBR

Dalton
62.3 Comp / 3,669 Yards / 6.95 YPA / 59 Long / 27 TD / 16 INT / 87.4 QBR


So you may want to keep "your" Carson Palmer blinders on, but in reality, you are nothing more than a Carson Palmer homer. If you just admit it to yourself, you will be happier with yourself. Kinda like when you came out of the closet. Life just seems easier doesn't it not having to hide it all the time? Not that you are very good at hiding it.

1) If you're going to compare one to the other, you should be comparing the same thing. Get rid of McFadden's name. Campbell was playing with a 5.4 ypc RB. Carson was playing with a 3.3 ypc back. In 2011, Campbell's RB had 100 less yards in SIX less games.

2) So according to you, there are 2 possibilities as to why the Raiders are worse. Either players don't play hard for Carson, or Carson is worse than the QB before him. It can't have anything to do with replacing coaching staffs, names a great offensive mind with essentially Brat, or the fact that the RB that the offense is built around and hinges on couldn't stay on the field.

3) The stats are very similar, yet Carson did it on a much much worse team. Worse o-line, worse RB (imagine that), worse receivers, worse OC. That says a lot and doesn't even consider the fact that Dalton pads his stats against horrible teams/defenses.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

1) If you're going to compare one to the other, you should be comparing the same thing. Get rid of McFadden's name. Campbell was playing with a 5.4 ypc RB. Carson was playing with a 3.3 ypc back. In 2011, Campbell's RB had 100 less yards in SIX less games.

2) So according to you, there are 2 possibilities as to why the Raiders are worse. Either players don't play hard for Carson, or Carson is worse than the QB before him. It can't have anything to do with replacing coaching staffs, names a great offensive mind with essentially Brat, or the fact that the RB that the offense is built around and hinges on couldn't stay on the field.

3) The stats are very similar, yet Carson did it on a much much worse team. Worse o-line, worse RB (imagine that), worse receivers, worse OC. That says a lot and doesn't even consider the fact that Dalton pads his stats against horrible teams/defenses.

Jesus Christ! You act like Dalton only plays cream puff defenses all year where as Palmer has to play the elite of the elite week in and week out.

They both play their share of good defenses, and they both play their share of cream puff defenses.

It isn't like Dalton has had an elite running game since he has been here. Benson was washed up, BJGE is okay, but he is not all that.

Every offense is centered around the QB, not the RB. If that is the way an offense could be focused any monkey could do it. The closest thing to that is in Minnesota. McFadden and Oakland are not and never were good enough to focus the entire offense solely on McFadden.

Go talk to any team owner, any expert, and the first thing they will want to do to start their franchise, is get a franchise QB, because the team goes, as t e QB goes for 95% of all cases.