Worst Members of the 400 HR Club

[navamind]

I've always been somewhat of a Giambi fan, but I don't like that he's been trying to hang-on when he's been awful for a 3rd consecutive season....just retire and let some kid get the opportunity to play in the majors.

I found this somewhat surprising:

144 OPS+ with A's
143 OPS+ with Yanks

 

[broncosmitty]

I've always been somewhat of a Giambi fan, but I don't like that he's been trying to hang-on when he's been awful for a 3rd consecutive season....just retire and let some kid get the opportunity to play in the majors.

We're in completely different camps on this one it seems. He struck me as an A-Hole in Oakland. And I seldom like anyone that chooses to play in The Bronx. But he's seemed human with the Rockies and now in Cleveland. Takes a lot for a former MVP to accept a reserve role. To me, it shows a love of the game. And it gives a guy an opportunity to continue learning the game, even after a long successful career. I think more than occupying a spot a young up and comer could fill, he's working with young up and comers as a peer, rather than a coach. (He is a shell of his former self, but he did have a walk off against my Tigers since joining CTown.). Not sure if he'll get a managerial spot next season or not, but when he does I think his time in Cleveland will have an impact on how he handles the skipper role. But I do see your point.

 

[Nosferatu]

OBP is important regardless of lineup spot.

AVG is much more important than OBP from the guys expected to knock in runs.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

The only 400+ HR club members with fewer WAR than Soriano are Kingman, Konerko*, and Dunn. Soriano's had some real good years ('02, '03, '06, '07, '08) and some real ugly ones ('09, '01, '11, and '14).

*If we're going to call anyone in this thread overrated, I think he's the most obvious one. He's the very epitome of a compiler, he was an average player throughout much of his career save for a couple years. Even in some of his best offensive years, some of his value provided on offense was negated by his horrible baserunning/hitting into double plays/defense.

Who over rates Konerko?

Shit, I honestly didn't even realize he was still playing.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

It has to be Dave Kingman by a country mile.

The only thing he did well was miss 50 games a year.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

I've always been somewhat of a Giambi fan, but I don't like that he's been trying to hang-on when he's been awful for a 3rd consecutive season....just retire and let some kid get the opportunity to play in the majors.

You would think at this point in his career $1M wouldn't even be that much of an incentive either.

 

[craigk217]

As a Chisox fan, I can unequivocally say Adam Dunn. $16 million a year for a freakin strikeout king who cant even hit his weight. Absolutely horrible. He will probably go down as the worst contract in Sox history.


There's a reason he's nicknamed The Big Donkey, and it aint all b/c he looks like one ... he plays like one too.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Maybe if you are a leadoff hitter but not for someone that's suppose to be driving in runs...

So do runs count less when non-leadoff hitters score them?

 

[DragonfromTO]

OBP is important regardless of lineup spot.

I've thought for a while that OBP should be repackaged (and possibly recalculated) as "out percentage" or something like that. Because that's essentially what it's telling you, "how often does this player step to the plate and not make an out?". And when it's worded that way, it makes the benefit much clearer. Outs are bad for the team no matter where you're batting, so not making outs is good.

 

[DragonfromTO]

AVG is much more important than OBP from the guys expected to knock in runs.

I'm unclear on one thing here. How does "expectation" affect the scoreboard/results?

 

[Demetrios37]

Kingman, Soriano, J Gonzalez

Juan Gonzalez is a 2 time AL MVP. So no

 

[StanMarsh51]

Juan Gonzalez is a 2 time AL MVP. So no

Then again, it's absolutely ridiculous that he won the '96 MVP over A-Rod and the '98 MVP over Nomar, so the writers making stupid decisions I don't think excuses him.

 

[navamind]

Juan Gonzalez is a 2 time AL MVP. So no

Both of which were very undeserved.

 

[broncosmitty]

Both of which were very undeserved.

Rangers won the west in '98. He had 50 doubles, 45 homers and drove in 157. I know, I know RBI for some reason doesn't matter anymore. But c'mon man, undeserved? (You casting your vote for Albert Belle that year? Griffey? Jeter?). That's a helluva season.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Rangers won the west in '98. He had 50 doubles, 45 homers and drove in 157. I know, I know RBI for some reason doesn't matter anymore. But c'mon man, undeserved? (You casting your vote for Albert Belle that year? Griffey? Jeter?). That's a helluva season.

I'd go Nomar that year...hit .323/35/122 with a 140 OPS+ and above average good glove that year at short.

Nomar also hit better with RISP than Gonzalez (.329 AVG, 1.024 OPS compared to .315, .994), but just had a lot less opportunities (partially because he spent a decent portion of the season hitting leadoff).

 

[broncosmitty]

I'd go Nomar that year...hit .323/35/122 with a 140 OPS+ and above average good glove that year at short.

Nomar also hit better with RISP than Gonzalez (.329 AVG, 1.024 OPS compared to .315, .994), but just had a lot less opportunities (partially because he spent a decent portion of the season hitting leadoff).

I left Nomar off my list on purpose. (Nava being the Sauwcks fan that he is.).
There were more than a handful of big offensive years that season.

 

[navamind]

I left Nomar off my list on purpose. (Nava being the Sauwcks fan that he is.).
There were more than a handful of big offensive years that season.

Nomar, Belle or A-Rod. Really hard to say.

'96... A-Rod or Griffey. Knoblauch should have finished much higher in the voting than he did (finished 16th despite batting .341/.448/.517 and scoring 140 runs... and he played a pretty good 2B!). He was a great player for a while.

 

[williewilliejuan]

Nomar, Belle or A-Rod. Really hard to say.

Juicer, juicer or juicer...

 

[StanMarsh51]

Juicer, juicer or juicer...

Wasn't Juan Gonzalez named in the Mitchell Report?

 

[Nosferatu]

I'm unclear on one thing here. How does "expectation" affect the scoreboard/results?

Well let's see, leadoff hitters and players hitting 2nd are typically where you put the guys who are most capable of getting on base and possibly possess a little speed which would give the players you count on to drive in runs the chance to drive them in. Unless of course you think players like Miggy Cabrera should bat leadoff because he has a high OBP? Let me know if you need further explanation.