With reallignment come new rivalries

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I think the Leafs need to become relevant as a hockey team again before they can hope to re-kindle any old rivalries.

Rivalries come and go all the time, but when one side has been irrelevant for such a long period of time, those rivalries fade in the distance.

Geography has played a much bigger role in Toronto's rivalries for years now.

I think some sense of history as well. Leafs & Habs are the 2 oldest teams. We talk about the Original 6, but those are the Original 2. I think their longevity also gives them props.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Sorry, but trying to compare the Miracle On Ice to...well, anything else hockey related - ever - doesn't work.

I know, I was trying to say that it doesn't matter how long ago the events took place, they still reshaped the face of the game.

 

[David_son]

So what are these rivalries? Blues vs Kings? Penguins vs Senators? Rangers vs Capitals? I don't think the recent playoff matches mean as much as we'd like to think. I think rivalries are based on moments. Moments which could take place during the playoffs, season, and even the offseason.

I disagree I never really hated the Caps when they were bad but over the last 5 I think we played them 3 times and I hate the Caps more every time and I hate OV more every time.


Since I live in St. Louis I can tell you from my friends that the Kings are one of the more hated teams here now.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I think some sense of history as well. Leafs & Habs are the 2 oldest teams. We talk about the Original 6, but those are the Original 2. I think their longevity also gives them props.

The Leafs haven't met the Wings in the POs in 20 years and only a grand total of 3 times since expansion, two of which were back-to-back and haven't met the Habs in the POs in almost 25 and only twice - back-to-back - since expansion.

They may become rivals again like Chicago and Detroit did with Chicago's resurgence in the last few years, but until both teams are good and play at least one playoff series again, if you take a poll of Toronto fans of who their biggest rivalries are with right now - not 20, 30, or 80 years ago - they're not going to name Detroit for sure and I think they're far less likely to name Montreal than they would Ottawa (overwhelming #1) or Buffalo.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I know, I was trying to say that it doesn't matter how long ago the events took place, they still reshaped the face of the game.

The Miracle on Ice didn't reshape the game, it transcended the game, which is what made it such a significant event.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

The Leafs haven't met the Wings in the POs in 20 years and only a grand total of 3 times since expansion, two of which were back-to-back and haven't met the Habs in the POs in almost 25 and only twice - back-to-back - since expansion.

They may become rivals again like Chicago and Detroit did with Chicago's resurgence in the last few years, but until both teams are good and play at least one playoff series again, if you take a poll of Toronto fans of who their biggest rivalries are with right now - not 20, 30, or 80 years ago - they're not going to name Detroit for sure and I think they're far less likely to name Montreal than they would Ottawa (overwhelming #1) or Buffalo.

I think the strange thing about the Maple Leafs is that they're one of the most storied franchise in NHL history yet no one seems to define mediocrity & disappointment over the past 46 years like they do. I think their city & history keeps them in the storylines in spite of their recent failures. Maybe I'm wrong, I could only speak from the outside looking in. Can't really speak from the perspective of a Leafs fan.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I disagree I never really hated the Caps when they were bad but over the last 5 I think we played them 3 times and I hate the Caps more every time and I hate OV more every time.


Since I live in St. Louis I can tell you from my friends that the Kings are one of the more hated teams here now.

This maybe true but IDk if I would consider those to be top tier rivalries. Pens & Sens meet in the playoffs a lot but you don't feel much of a rivalry when we face each other. Even this past season when Cooke injured Karlsson, I did not feel a rivalry when we played the Sens.

 

[David_son]

This maybe true but IDk if I would consider those to be top tier rivalries. Pens & Sens meet in the playoffs a lot but you don't feel much of a rivalry when we face each other. Even this past season when Cooke injured Karlsson, I did not feel a rivalry when we played the Sens.

obviously the geographic rivals are going to be more intense.

Rangers/Devils
Rangers/Islanders

Blues/Preds
Blues/Chicago.

Sharks/Ducks/Kings

Canucks/Flames/Oilers



But the argument in that based on some event 20 years ago Oilers and Kings are now a rival. But they are not geographically and have no playoff battles. So until the playoffs are happening on a consistent basis I wouldnt consider Kings and Oilers on the same level as any other Rivalry.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I just want to make something clear, I'm talking about rivalries within the division. I think we need to lower our standards somewhat when talking divisional rivalries. Everyone has divisional rivalries, some are more heated than others. That's really what I'm getting at here. Who in the Pac has a greater rivalry? I already mentioned The Battles of Alberta (Flames vs Oilers) & Escape From LA (Ducks vs Kings). Next on the list has got to be Kings vs Oilers. Only rivlary in that division with any merit might be Canucks & Flames? I consider the Oilers & Kings to be a top 3 rivalry, within the division. With Yakupov's goal/celebration, it could be the spark that takes the rivalry to another level.

 

[TiLoBrown]

Um I can tell you without a doubt that Rags/Caps is a top tier rivalry. IMO alot better than Pens/Flyers, almost as good as Flyers/Devils. Take away Crosby and the networks blowing Crosby and not that mean people care about the Penguins. Most fans hate the coverage/exposure they get, not the actual team.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Um I can tell you without a doubt that Rags/Caps is a top tier rivalry. IMO alot better than Pens/Flyers, almost as good as Flyers/Devils. Take away Crosby and the networks blowing Crosby and not that mean people care about the Penguins. Most fans hate the coverage/exposure they get, not the actual team.

IDK how it's better than Flyers & Pens. I go weeks without talking to my dad when his Flyers beat my Pens. Our rivalry runs deep.

 

[David_son]

IDK how it's better than Flyers & Pens. I go weeks without talking to my dad when his Flyers beat my Pens. Our rivalry runs deep.

I think its also a matter of perspective to me Caps/Rangers is an intense rivalry. One there was the 3-1 flop then you have OV dirty play and complaining and honestly it makes me hate them even more. and the Rivalry to me as a Rangers fan has gone about rivals with Flyers or Boston.


To you as a Pens fan any Pens rivalry takes precedence, with this next comment I dont know if it reflects the whole countries view but the majority of people I know hate the Flyers and Pens. so they wouldnt really care who would win in that match up.


All Philly sports suck and the Seahawks jerseys are horrible are two things sports wise me and my friends agree on.

 

[TiLoBrown]

Thats nice, my fiance bitches more about the Caps than she does about alot of other teams. Just because you hear alot about it doesn't make it great, the games played do. Most of the recent Pens/Flyers games have been high scoring but have had horrible defense and worse goaltending. Hell, I'd say the Islanders are a bigger rival for the Pens over the Caps.

 

[DevilishWon]

far more "Metropolitan" than Columbus, Pittsburgh and Raleigh.

QUOTE]

True but putting them in their own "Hayseed division " may have been seem as insulting

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Thats nice, my fiance bitches more about the Caps than she does about alot of other teams. Just because you hear alot about it doesn't make it great, the games played do. Most of the recent Pens/Flyers games have been high scoring but have had horrible defense and worse goaltending. Hell, I'd say the Islanders are a bigger rival for the Pens over the Caps.

Time out, are we talking about the Pens & Flyers or Pens & Caps? I think as of now those are our top 2 rivals. Islanders & Pens have a good rivalry as well, just no one has talked much about the Isles as of late until now. I just remember back in 2003-04, there wasn't much to cheer about if you were a Pens fan, but our rivalry with the Flyers got me pumped up like our record that season didn't matter.

 

[dash]

True but putting them in their own "Hayseed division" may have been seem as insulting

lol at Hayseed - Reminds me of Costanza posing as a tourist from Little Rock, Arkansas.

 

[elocomotive]

(what can I say? Everyone wants a piece of my Pens!)

I definitely misread that on first glance and was like WTF?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I definitely misread that on first glance and was like WTF?

LOL didn't think about it like that. Forgot the "i", haha!

 

[elocomotive]

Um I can tell you without a doubt that Rags/Caps is a top tier rivalry. IMO alot better than Pens/Flyers, almost as good as Flyers/Devils. Take away Crosby and the networks blowing Crosby and not that mean people care about the Penguins. Most fans hate the coverage/exposure they get, not the actual team.

I don't know - we've met a lot in the playoffs (especially in recent years) and that has intensified the tension in recent years, but I don't really think of the Rangers as a rival.

I think if you asked Caps' fans it would be Pens #1, Flyers #2, Rags a distant #3, and then all others that don't matter much. Because those are the teams that are close by and that invaded the old Capital Centre year after year. I doubt there is any team in the NHL that has endured the number of fans constantly in it's arena like the Capitals do b/c DC is such a transient city and it's so close to several major cities - Isles, Rags, Devils, Flyers, and Pens all 2-5 hours away by car/bus.

The Pens are at the top b/c of years of playoff disappointments and 3-1 leads blown. The Flyers because their fans are often so detestable. This is also because a true Washingtonian looks down a little bit on Philly and Pittsburgh. There just isn't the same vitriol for New York by and large and we are sister cities in a way - one the center of business, another the center of power.

In sum...

I will also add the Caps probably don't have real depth of rivals because we've been largely unsuccessful as a franchise. Never have won anything of consequence, still hold the record for worst NHL season, and have choked off big leads more than any team in NHL history. It's hard to find a way to hate on a team without success. It's like trying to play fetch with a dog that just lays there.

 

[David_son]

I don't know - we've met a lot in the playoffs (especially in recent years) and that has intensified the tension in recent years, but I don't really think of the Rangers as a rival.

I think if you asked Caps' fans it would be Pens #1, Flyers #2, Rags a distant #3, and then all others that don't matter much. Because those are the teams that are close by and that invaded the old Capital Centre year after year. I doubt there is any team in the NHL that has endured the number of fans constantly in it's arena like the Capitals do b/c DC is such a transient city and it's so close to several major cities - Isles, Rags, Devils, Flyers, and Pens all 2-5 hours away by car/bus.

The Pens are at the top b/c of years of playoff disappointments and 3-1 leads blown. The Flyers because their fans are often so detestable. This is also because a true Washingtonian looks down a little bit on Philly and Pittsburgh. There just isn't the same vitriol for New York by and large and we are sister cities in a way - one the center of business, another the center of power.

In sum...

I will also add the Caps probably don't have real depth of rivals because we've been largely unsuccessful as a franchise. Never have won anything of consequence, still hold the record for worst NHL season, and have choked off big leads more than any team in NHL history. It's hard to find a way to hate on a team without success. It's like trying to play fetch with a dog that just lays there.

Also the main chunk of a teams rivals are from the division and until this year Caps were with the Jets/thrashers, Hurricanes Florida Panthers and Lightning.... not really that close by or very successful so that would lead to your major rivals being from either old Conferences (east was Whales right) or from who you face most in the playoffs which recently has been Pens and Rangers.