Why do people resist change/improvement in understanding baseball...

[Omar 382]

Also something I've noticed about people who use advanced metrics is they disdain regular statistics. Yes I understand you don't value wins or rbi at the same level but if you want people to appreciate WHIP and OPS then you need to be able to assign some value to regular stats. It's like valuing FG% at a higher rate than PPG or YPA more than total yards. One guy may have a WAR of 6.2 while another guys is 5.7 but if guy B plays more games, hits more homers, drives in more runs and hits for a better BA it's OK for someone to like guy B more even if his OPS isn't quite as good.

Yes, but then people who look at statistics would agree.

Someone with a .950 OPS in 30 PA is in no way better than someone with an .850 OPS in 650 PA. It's not that statistic that's wrong, it's the (faulty) conclusion you would draw from it

 

[Omar 382]

Also something I've noticed about people who use advanced metrics is they disdain regular statistics. Yes I understand you don't value wins or rbi at the same level but if you want people to appreciate WHIP and OPS then you need to be able to assign some value to regular stats. It's like valuing FG% at a higher rate than PPG or YPA more than total yards. One guy may have a WAR of 6.2 while another guys is 5.7 but if guy B plays more games, hits more homers, drives in more runs and hits for a better BA it's OK for someone to like guy B more even if his OPS isn't quite as good.

This statement doesn't make sense. If you want people to appreciate how many times a guy gets laid, you have to look at all the time he jerks off...?

 

[rmilia1]

Actually, you said their was nothing particularly special about his season. That was hysterical.

I said I didn't consider it an all time great year because it didn't correlate to his teams success. On my opinion you can't have an all time year unless your team is successful as well because you can't be Most Valuable when your team wins 83 games and grossly underachieves. That's my personal opinion. Statistically he had a great season. So did others.

 

[Omar 382]

I work with stats, too, and I just don't like things like predictive analytics. Humans are unpredictable creatures

So you think it's safe to say that Jed Gyorko has the same chance as being as good as Bryce Harper coming into the season?

 

[rmilia1]

This statement doesn't make sense. If you want people to appreciate how many times a guy gets laid, you have to look at all the time he jerks off...?

I don't follow that but it made me laugh.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

So you think it's safe to say that Jed Gyorko has the same chance as being as good as Bryce Harper coming into the season?

Sure: 50/50. Either he will, or he won't.

 

[Omar 382]

I said I didn't consider it an all time great year because it didn't correlate to his teams success. On my opinion you can't have an all time year unless your team is successful as well because you can't be Most Valuable when your team wins 83 games and grossly underachieves. That's my personal opinion. Statistically he had a great season. So did others.

So if I am a DEA agent and I go in and kill 10 drug lords single-handedly while the rest of my team stands around with their dicks in their hand, I didn't do a good job? I should be held accountable for something else SOMEONE else did that I have virtually no impact over?

 

[Omar 382]

Sure: 50/50. Either he will, or he won't.

I'm gonna assume you're joking.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I said I didn't consider it an all time great year because it didn't correlate to his teams success. On my opinion you can't have an all time year unless your team is successful as well because you can't be Most Valuable when your team wins 83 games and grossly underachieves. That's my personal opinion. Statistically he had a great season. So did others.

Historical equates to important and memorable. This season by harper is neither. It's absurd to say otherwise. It's merely a very good year that Stat nerds think is great. The truth is 5 years from now no one will remember anything harper did this year because it wasn't important or valuable in ANY way

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I'm gonna assume you're joking.

I am, but my statement was factually correct.

There's also a 50/50 chance that Bryce Harper won't be as good as Bryce Harper this season.

Stats and logic can get fucked up sometimes

 

[Omar 382]

Wow, just when you thought Bernie over the Babe was as bad as you were going to see...

 

[Omar 382]

I am, but my statement was factually correct.

There's also a 50/50 chance that Bryce Harper won't be as good as Bryce Harper this season.

Stats and logic can get fucked up sometimes

Harper not being as good as least year is much lower than 50/50. Harper being better than Gyorko is much, much higher than 50/50

 

[Omar 382]

Wow, just when you thought Bernie over the Babe was as bad as you were going to see...

This was directed at the Harper statement

 

[rmilia1]

So if I am a DEA agent and I go in and kill 10 drug lords single-handedly while the rest of my team stands around with their dicks in their hand, I didn't do a good job? I should be held accountable for something else SOMEONE else did that I have virtually no impact over?

Yep. In a team sport leadership is valuable to me. Leadership denotes setting an example, guiding others to achieve and ultimately resulting in success. Baseball doesn't value that quality like other major sports. It tends to be more Stat driven and that's fine. Value however is added in more than one way. No one is arguing Harper's stats. I'm saying his stats didn't overcome what he lacked in other areas that ultimately resulted in wins.

 

[Omar 382]

Yep. In a team sport leadership is valuable to me. Leadership denotes setting an example, guiding others to achieve and ultimately resulting in success. Baseball doesn't value that quality like other major sports. It tends to be more Stat driven and that's fine. Value however is added in more than one way. No one is arguing Harper's stats. I'm saying his stats didn't overcome what he lacked in other areas that ultimately resulted in wins.

Are you purposely trying to prove my original post when I made this thread?

 

[rmilia1]

Yep... that's what I said. Not an all time great year. Lol. I stick by it.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Yep... that's what I said. Not an all time great year. Lol. I stick by it.

I know.

Hey, you never did tell me if you've been tested for autism.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Harper not being as good as least year is much lower than 50/50. Harper being better than Gyorko is much, much higher than 50/50

But you can't accurately predict those. You can only come up with those figures after the season is done.

 

[rmilia1]

Are you purposely trying to prove my original post when I made this thread?

Lol. No. But you're proving mine. Harper had a great year. It just wasn't a MVP year I'm and I've said why. I could give stats as to why as well but I did that last year. The point is that every person assigns different value to what each stats means as it pertains to their ultimate idea of success. To me, as in my opinion, success is most shown by wins. It's why teams still make the playoffs by record instead of run differential. I'm not arguing against your advanced metrics. I simply don't value them as much

 

[Chewbaccer]

Yep. In a team sport leadership is valuable to me. Leadership denotes setting an example, guiding others to achieve and ultimately resulting in success. Baseball doesn't value that quality like other major sports. It tends to be more Stat driven and that's fine. Value however is added in more than one way. No one is arguing Harper's stats. I'm saying his stats didn't overcome what he lacked in other areas that ultimately resulted in wins.

To be fair, the Nats were injury riddled all last season and they possibly had the worst defense in the Majors.

I know the mentality is next man up, but when your starting center fielder, left fielder, third baseman and first baseman(Span, Werth, Rendon and Zimmerman) all miss significant time, and your shortstop is a huge defensive liability, it's hard to overcome.

The Nats definitely didn't underachieve because of Harper.

When Steve Carlton won 27 games on a Phillies team that only won 59 games, was that not a historic season because of the lack of team success?

One player can't do it all.