Who belongs in the HOF

[Omar 382]

Mr 398

The Tommy John of center fielders- he had a lot of good seasons, but he hung on later in his career and stat-padded a bit. Let's not forget that in 9040 PA he only put up a career WAR of 44.3. Pretty underwhelming. And then you look at non-counting statistics and you get more underwhelming and non-deserving Hall of Fame numbers: .265/.346/.469 with a 119 wRC+

 

[GNG]

View attachment 89697

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not attacking at all. Just trying to educate and be educated. In this instance, I'm doing the educating.

But heres the thing, I said I look at BBs.. I would rather look at BA with BBs than to look at OBP... It tells you more than OBP does... The more stats you look at the better analysis you can make... but if you look at more stats you should be looking at each at its most primitive so you don't overvalue things...

For example, you don't look at OPS and then look at HRs...

when I look at a player, I like to look at each skill and go from there... that's why I like BA more than OBP...

 

[Omar 382]

Walks are a counting stat and thus not nearly as valuable a tool as OBP. For example, a player may have 40 BB's but a .430 OBP in limited time, while another play may walk 60 times but only have a .400 OBP. Ceteris Parabus, who would you rather have?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Mr 398

The obvious problem with Murphy is that he only had 7 seasons that could be classified as good (or better)...the rest of it on the whole was mediocre at best.

Unless they were some historically great years, I can't see see someone with that few quality seasons be a HOFer.

 

[DragonfromTO]

If you reread my post though, you will see that I said I like to measure BB and BA separately... I am not discounting BB... I just think getting a hit is more important than getting a walk...

Would you agree that there are different roles where a BB can be more important than others...

For example, a leadoff hitter, it is very important that they walk and see pitches... But for a power hitter wouldn't you rather them get the hit than the walk??

You seem to be saying that like it's a one for one trade-off, but it's not. And especially in this specific case... if a hitter is generally seeing a lot of balls when he is at bat isn't the likelihood of him getting a hit by swinging going to be lower?

 

[DragonfromTO]

But heres the thing, I said I look at BBs.. I would rather look at BA with BBs than to look at OBP... It tells you more than OBP does... The more stats you look at the better analysis you can make... but if you look at more stats you should be looking at each at its most primitive so you don't overvalue things...

For example, you don't look at OPS and then look at HRs...

when I look at a player, I like to look at each skill and go from there... that's why I like BA more than OBP...

I'm not sure I understand how the former prevents the latter.

 

[Omar 382]

I'm not sure I understand how the former prevents the latter.

Yeah it's impossible to follow this guy

 

[navamind]

He definitely is borderline, but his longevity is not that great, He played 17 seasons, but only 10 seasons of over 500 PA... Not to mention, he never hit over 300 in any of those 500+PA seasons...

His .371 OBP is 27th all-time among 2B (per Fangraphs, some of those guys ahead of him either have 1/3 the plate appearances Grich does, or mostly played at other positions anyway). Grich's power numbers aren't particularly impressive (.158 ISO, 224 HR), but 2B is historically a light-hitting position, and his power numbers still compare very favorably to most 2nd basemen (37th in ISO, and as with OBP, most of the guys ahead of him are guys with like 2000-3000 career PA). The only 2B ahead of him in wRC+ are Hornsby, Collins, Lajoie, Robinson, Morgan and Carew (who has more games at 1B than 2B). Not only that, but Grich is well known for his glove.

 

[molsaniceman]

You seem to be saying that like it's a one for one trade-off, but it's not. And especially in this specific case... if a hitter is generally seeing a lot of balls when he is at bat isn't the likelihood of him getting a hit by swinging going to be lower?

not if his name is vlad guerrero

 

[Cedrique]

Walks are a counting stat and thus not nearly as valuable a tool as OBP. For example, a player may have 40 BB's but a .430 OBP in limited time, while another play may walk 60 times but only have a .400 OBP. Ceteris Parabus, who would you rather have?

Wasn't he the Lithuanian backup to the backup Power Forward on the Milwaukee Bucks a couple years ago? You remember--white guy, 7 feet tall, pony tail. Averaged 3.2 points and 3 blocked shots a game