Which Team Won The Big 4-Team Trade?

[logic]

So you are saying Brooklyn isn’t one of the winners?

Well, you did say bottoming out has its benefits above. Just took them a little longer to get there. LOL

 

[MilkSpiller22]

its easy to call the nets the losers... as that experiment blew up in their faces...

but it wasnt Harden that fucked the Nets... it was Kyrie...

 

[logic]

its easy to call the nets the losers.

Could just stop right there.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Could just stop right there.

sure... but what would be the point of posting the obvious....

it would be like me posting: hey guys... i think OKC is a good team this season... what do yall think about that....

 

[tlance]

its easy to call the nets the losers... as that experiment blew up in their faces...

but it wasnt Harden that fucked the Nets... it was Kyrie...

Kyrie deserves most of the blame.

But we could all see that train wreck coming a mile away.

With those personalities?

The chances of one of them not ruining it was pretty low.

 

[The Q]

T

Kyrie deserves most of the blame.

But we could all see that train wreck coming a mile away.

With those personalities?

The chances of one of them not ruining it was pretty low.

They were a single shoe size from winning it all

 

[tlance]

T

They were a single shoe size from winning it all

Pretty major reach there.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

T

They were a single shoe size from winning it all

the title would have made the experiment look good... but that was one season... which i guess i would agree that loss was mostly thanks to Harden...

But the next seasons, the experiment didnt blow up in their face because of Harden... they would have still been a super team... Kyrie was the biggest problem child, and was the biggest reason Harden left first..

then Kyrie blew up the nets even worse...

not to mention the idiotic political comments against the jewish people... IN NY...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Pretty major reach there.

no i think it is fair that the Nets should have won the eastern title vs the Bucks...

 

[tlance]

no i think it is fair that the Nets should have won the eastern title vs the Bucks...

Definite possibility.

Far from given.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Definite possibility.

Far from given.

sure... and i thought it was the eastern finals... looked it over.. it was the semis... so they still would have had to beat atlanta... just to make it to the championships...

but if i do recall, they were the favourites....

 

[tlance]

sure... and i thought it was the eastern finals... looked it over.. it was the semis... so they still would have had to beat atlanta... just to make it to the championships...

but if i do recall, they were the favourites....

They would have beaten Atlanta.

A lot less confident about the Finals

 

[MilkSpiller22]

They would have beaten Atlanta.

A lot less confident about the Finals

sure... but in the hypothetical sense it is probably better for all arguments if the Nets would have won that title... but of course it is not a given...

but i do think it is safe to say, the biggest reason they lost to the bucks was because of Harden's injury....

but the biggest reason the Nets superteam failed was because of Kyrie...

but if they won the title that year, the Superteam would have been seen as success even if it fell apart the next season...

so by that argument, i guess it can be said that Harden was why it failed...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Harden is still the best player from this trade (i am not sure who Houston got pick wise with all that) but Allen is obviously younger.

Id be curious how he would do if not playing along Mobley full time. He had a very good january last year in Mobleys absence but had a negative on/off in december and March.

Regardless thats not the reality and Cleveland did exceptionally well in this trade...obviously.

Harden isn’t even on the same team though lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

Man, you just don’t even realize how badly you clown yourself when you go out of your way to dredge up these posts.

Especially when we consider some of your absolute doozies.

How is life on Mars with your 1 testicle?

In fairness, you didn’t give much hope Allen had some kind of potential. Rotational big? Look at the centers, he is an all-star caliber center (at least borderline) and he is still young.
He was one of the most impactful defensive bigs in the nba. The team falls apart defensive without him or Mobley.
He is 3rd in offensive rating in the NBA.

I said years ago I thought his potential was higher and we don’t know. Too many unknowns.

Saying Cleveland won the trade is like saying you wipe your ass. Everyone knew it was a good trade considering what they gave up…well maybe @DJ

 

[tlance]

Harden isn’t even on the same team though lol

Brooklyn clearly did not win the trade.

This was a side point countering Wiggy’s grandstanding.

He made a comment back then that Allen would be the best player in the deal within 3 years I think. And I called him on it.

And he likes to try to come back to old comments whenever he was anywhere near the neighborhood of being right.

As good as Allen is, which is better than I ever thought he would be, Harden is still the best player on a playoff team.

Jarrett Allen is the 4th best player on one of the best teams in the league.

We all know that Harden is still brining a lot to the table and contributing value in ways that Allen’s skill set just can’t touch.

 

[tlance]

In fairness, you didn’t give much hope Allen had some kind of potential. Rotational big? Look at the centers, he is an all-star caliber center (at least borderline) and he is still young.
He was one of the most impactful defensive bigs in the nba. The team falls apart defensive without him or Mobley.
He is 3rd in offensive rating in the NBA.

I said years ago I thought his potential was higher and we don’t know. Too many unknowns.

Saying Cleveland won the trade is like saying you wipe your ass. Everyone knew it was a good trade considering what they gave up…well maybe @DJ

Totally admit I undersold Allen. Have admitted that multiple times.

I was wrong there.

But guess what?

Wiggy was wrong too.

And this whole convo started because he made a homer comment.

You think he would have been as high on Allen if he landed in Detroit?

I don’t.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Harden isn’t even on the same team though lol

I appreciate that but the comment was Allen would be the best player in the deal. I think Allen was a phenomenonal get, but he can't carry a team like Harden can.

Now as far as being part of a 1 seed type team you can make a decent argument that Allen is a better fit.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I appreciate that but the comment was Allen would be the best player in the deal. I think Allen was a phenomenonal get, but he can't carry a team like Harden can.

Now as far as being part of a 1 seed type team you can make a decent argument that Allen is a better fit.

absolutely. but i can see why a Wizards fan (@tlance) would value a volume scorer that has lost a ton of his effectiveness better than one of the best defensive players and most efficient shooters in the game. Right now Harden is shooting UNDEr 40% from the field and is a poor 3 pt. shooter- compared to being a 47% shooter around the time of the trade.

If teams could choose between the 2- the vast majority would rather have Allen- IF you wanted to win games and not just accumulate stats- but again a Wizards fan might not understand that- especially one trying to save face after calling Allen a decent role player. You can usually find a guy who can put up numberse if they constantly have the ball in their hands- ESPECIALLY when their #1 player is out with injuries and there isnt much else left on the team to score.

 

[tlance]

absolutely. but i can see why a Wizards fan (@tlance) would value a volume scorer that has lost a ton of his effectiveness better than one of the best defensive players and most efficient shooters in the game. Right now Harden is shooting UNDEr 40% from the field and is a poor 3 pt. shooter- compared to being a 47% shooter around the time of the trade.

If teams could choose between the 2- the vast majority would rather have Allen- IF you wanted to win games and not just accumulate stats- but again a Wizards fan might not understand that- especially one trying to save face after calling Allen a decent role player. You can usually find a guy who can put up numberse if they constantly have the ball in their hands- ESPECIALLY when their #1 player is out with injuries and there isnt much else left on the team to score.

Good god you are a bitter man.

I know how to value players. And I have never overrated guys like Harden.

Clippers are 5th in the West.

If you took Harden off the Clippers and put Allen on, the Clippers would not be a playoff team and you know this.

Now, Cleveland would be worse if they had Harden instead of Allen also because of fit, but Allen isn’t cut out to be a number 1 on a team. Even a bad one.

He is a great support player.