What's Stan been doing?

[anotheridiot]

help me out here...I'm looking at sportrac's multiyear breakdown of cap hits, and it shows Hossa a constant $5.275 every year through 19-20. Where this cap hit decline you keep referring to?

That real good site went down to run payrolls, latest I get on google is

Chicago Blackhawks 2015 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac

That gives the cap hit of 5.275 but actual salary at 7.9 for next year, so I guess it does not matter.

 

[JBM73]

The cap hit is always the AVERAGE salary over the life of the contract. If a player signs a 3 year contract with salaries of $2 mil yr 1, $2.5 mil yr 2 and $3 mil yr 3, the cap hit will be $2.5 mil each year for 3 years.

The way teams get the cap hit down, like with Hossa, is to add low salary years at the end of the contract. Although, the league has cracked down on this.

 

[JBM73]

That real good site went down to run payrolls, latest I get on google is

Chicago Blackhawks 2015 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac

I didn't realize the Panarin contract was so heavily performance-based.

 

[JBM73]

Wouldn't mind the Hawks bringing back Ryan Stanton as a 6/7 guy. He's currently an UFA.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

The cap hit is always the AVERAGE salary over the life of the contract. If a player signs a 3 year contract with salaries of $2 mil yr 1, $2.5 mil yr 2 and $3 mil yr 3, the cap hit will be $2.5 mil each year for 3 years.

The way teams get the cap hit down, like with Hossa, is to add low salary years at the end of the contract. Although, the league has cracked down on this.

ok, well what's your source showing that Hossa has lower cap hits in later years of his contract?

 

[anotheridiot]

ok, well what's your source showing that Hossa has lower cap hits in later years of his contract?

I told you, they show salary and cap hit separately and his salary is 7.9, then 4 then 1. The cap hit remains the same. How many times do you need me to say I was wrong? Please dont turn this into the bears board.

 

[JBM73]

ok, well what's your source showing that Hossa has lower cap hits in later years of his contract?

I'm not sure how else to say the same thing again. Hossa does not have lower cap hits in the later years of his contract just lower salary years, which were added to get the average salary (and thus the cap hit) lower.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I told you, they show salary and cap hit separately and his salary is 7.9, then 4 then 1. The cap hit remains the same. How many times do you need me to say I was wrong? Please dont turn this into the bears board.

I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, I was just trying to understand the situation. I have heard what you were saying elsewhere, so I wasn't sure.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

ok, so let me ask you this question. After this year, when his actual base salary drops way off but his cap hit is high (relatively), if the Hawks cut him, do they have the equivalent of "dead money" hits to the cap like what happens in football? I'm not real familiar with the NHL rules on this.

 

[anotheridiot]

Ilya Kovalchuk Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

When Kovalchuk retired, the devils lost his services, but also lost his cap hits, so I was ultimately thinking that Hossa is going to want to go home to play in europe while he still has game left. So whether that is next year when he is only paid 4 million or the following year when its only a million he might retire from the NHL and go home and play. Really cannot see Hossa going thru this for a measly million. Dont know how much they make over there, but figuring its home it might make a difference. Thats where I see them gaining some cap space. As of now, with 20 players the hawks are almost 2 million over and they are not the 20 that are gonna dress game 1.

 

[JBM73]

Here's a link explaining what would happen if Hossa retires:

Hossa, Keith Deals a Potential Cap Burden for Blackhawks | NBC Chicago

Here's a link showing the effects of buying out his contract. It's not like the NFL where you can just waive a player with no cap penalty:

Marian Hossa - NHL Player Buyout Calculator | Spotrac

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

oh jeez, ugly. OK thanks. So I guess we have to hope that he stays here as long as possible and hopefully plays at a somewhat decent level, because either way he's eating up a chunk of the cap.

Incidentally, in football you often can't just waive the guy with no cap penalty, frequently there's dead money (basically the leftover bonus money) that has to be charged to the team, like with Jared Allen this year.

 

[averagejoe]

Cali, NHL contracts are very strict compared to the NFL. For instance, NFL players can restructure contracts (like Peyton Manning just did). That's not an option in the NHL to restructure. The only recourse is to buy-out the NHL player's contract to free up the cap money against the team (like the Kings did with Mike Richards).

 

[anotheridiot]

Thanks JBM for those links. Its probably more of hoping you get some productive young players like Saad to make up the difference and produce like a couple three million dollar guys to eat up the hits while making 800K.

Looks like the NHL allows contracts like this to help make the "dynasty" but are in place to break up dynasties too.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

that's interesting, I didn't know that. I was wondering whether or not they could approach, say, Brent Seabrook, and extend him for 4 years but at a lower cap hit this year, but apparently that doesn't work in this league.

 

[JBM73]

I was wondering whether or not they could approach, say, Brent Seabrook, and extend him for 4 years but at a lower cap hit this year, but apparently that doesn't work in this league.

No, unfortunately. Stan will still have to move at least one of Sharp and Bickell, maybe both. We definitely need to sign a veteran defenseman, perhaps re-signing Oduya for 2 more years. But, it sounds like other teams know the Hawks cap situation and are trying to lowball on offers for Sharp. Haven't read much about interest in Bickell (surprise). The Hawks may have to retain some salary on each.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

If there aren't any serious takers for Sharp, Bickell, or Versteeg, what do you think of the idea of trading Seabrook (who I would imagine would be more tempting trade bait than Sharp or Bickell) and re-signing Oduya at a lower price than Seabrook's cap hit and then signing another cheap journeyman defenseman to get our spots filled and get under the cap? Do you think Oduya (being older) would take like $4.5 million?

 

[anotheridiot]

Oduya only made 2.825 last year so I think the hawks are trying to keep getting him on the cheap. He is definitely #4 behind Hammer, who's average salary is only 4.1, so I dont think they want Oduya over Hammers pay for any amout of time. I also think they are fine with splitting the 3 big men and playing Runblad, TVR and Johns with each of Keith, Hammer and Seabrook.

I would not mind seeing Seabrook traded, he is one of those guys that comes thru, but you really never hear anything about his "laser" shot and he is definitely not physical enough during the regular season. Without Keith he is pretty regular, but come playoff time, he delivers.

Teams are definitely aware of the hawks payroll situation, nobody really wants to help. I am surprised nobody signed Kruger to an offer sheet yet. Eventually there will be teams that are having trouble getting to the cap floor that will want a salary back. Maybe last year was Sharps year to get moved and Stan turned teams down. Now teams dont think he will help as he declined last year. Might be the same situation with Seabs this year.

Now, even if either are bought out it still counts against the cap.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

ok, well, if we can have Oduya for $2.5 or so, seems to argue even more for trading Seabrook. I mean of course I like him, but if the Hawks are that hard up, they have to do something, and Seabrook is taking up a lot of the cap. We could sign him as a free agent again next year anyway if they wanted to.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

ok, well, if we can have Oduya for $2.5 or so, seems to argue even more for trading Seabrook. I mean of course I like him, but if the Hawks are that hard up, they have to do something, and Seabrook is taking up a lot of the cap. We could sign him as a free agent again next year anyway if they wanted to.

I think they are looking to trade Crawford before they trade seabrook. I read a rumor that if the Hawks don't clear cap by a certain day this week Kruger and Oduya will start looking around for other offers.