What the QB-centric view of the NFL gets wrong

[msgkings322]

So basically it's all about the QB, the franchise, you lose your guy you're done. That position matters 3x the others so we all do threads on is X a Bust or is Y the best QB in the Division...

I think that over-focus loses sight of the uniqueness of football as a TEAM sport. In basketball and baseball especially there is FAR more importance in the individual and what they do, the numbers they put up, etc. Baseball on offense is barely even a team sport, it's literally a lineup of 9 individuals (some strategy excepted, you know what I mean).

Football, and the QB position in particular, are very different. They cannot do ANYTHING alone, all on them. First, football is by far the most coaching focused sport. How a QB does generally depends on his coach to some degree. Next, the QB can only put up numbers if literally the whole team helps. Someone has to catch the ball, someone has to block. Barry Bonds can just hit home runs by himself, Michael Jordan can just score and score. But no QB can just be great by themself.

So you have guys like Russell Wilson, great HOF QB right? Sure, but put him on a crap team with a overmatched rookie coach and not so much. Meanwhile a decent QB Matt Stafford goes to a better situation and boom he's got more rings than Marino. Guys like Brad Johnson and Nick Foles and Trent Dilfer do too

I guess my rambling point is, it's not as easy to compare QBs like they are individuals...as much of their poutput is about their team as themselves. The only guys I can think of who would make a difference all by themself would be Mahomes, Rodgers, and god help us TB12. The others, it's fun to argue but it's harder to really figure it out.

 

[Ojb81]

no but really, i agree with your message. but, like, shuddup 'n stuff.

 

[msgkings322]

no but really, i agree with your message. but, like, shuddup 'n stuff.

 

[msgkings322]

I guess as someone who sort of follows the Niners, it's a good lens to look at the endless Jimmy G vs Trey talk. I mean ENDLESS for at least a year now, every damn day. SO much focus on them....Jimmy got them to a SB and close to another, Jimmy sucks, Trey sucks, Jimmy great, Trey great...meanwhile the Niners look legit because of historically good D so maybe all they need is another Brad Johnson/Nick Foles level guy. But if Jimmy gets a ring then it's another more than Marino guy. It's too much...

 

[DHoey]

I guess as someone who sort of follows the Niners, it's a good lens to look at the endless Jimmy G vs Trey talk. I mean ENDLESS for at least a year now, every damn day. SO much focus on them....Jimmy got them to a SB and close to another, Jimmy sucks, Trey sucks, Jimmy great, Trey great...meanwhile the Niners look legit because of historically good D so maybe all they need is another Brad Johnson/Nick Foles level guy. But if Jimmy gets a ring then it's another more than Marino guy. It's too much...

That’s the bet Seattle made….QB isn’t the end all be all like media outlets want you to think. It’s good marketing, even my mother in law will ask about who’s the QB of what team.

I think the Ravens are watching the Seattle situation awfully close……

 

[Sgt Brutus]

To add to your point, there are so many plays that are hard to judge for a QB.

We as fans don’t know the play that was drawn up. Was it a bad pass or did the WR mess up the route or timing?

Recently, people were questioning if Burrow was to blame for taking a bunch of sacks or was it his O-Line play?

It truly is a team sport, all three phases, plus a ton of coaching and strategy on the backend that we don’t get to see.

 

[Clayton]

I think you're underselling the team aspect of baseball a bit. Moneyball and all that.

I do agree that QB, like every position, there are a couple of players who have the 'extra something special' and you need those to consistently win games. What elite players do is it forces the opposition to mix things up and that is what creates success. If both teams know Mike Evans is beating Jaylen Watson every single play then that forces the defense to change. Then its up to the team to step up and win. Or in some cases, for Mike Evans to beast and beat some sort of crazy double coverage. Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Lamar can simply just remove defenders from the equation some times. As they get older, they wont be able to that. (Wilson?) Eventually every QB will have to be smart and accurate like Brady or else they'll eventually be quite replaceable.

As far as the Niners as concerned, that team is seriously stacked and can never stay healthy or find a QB. Im sorry, but if ya'll had a real QB you would have beaten the Chiefs in the SB. Although to your point, Mahomes did have one of his worst games in that SB because Bosa beat Fisher for free all game.

 

[msgkings322]

Geno Smith (and Russell Wilson) making this thread look smart

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I can't say I agree with the premise of this thread at all. There's a very, very clear difference between guys like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Lamar, Herbert, and Burrow and everyone else. And even in that last group Mahomes and Allen are kind of in outer space right now in terms of QB play compared to the rest of that group, imo.

I will say the difference between the 12th best QB and the 25th best QB is actually pretty minimal these days. Not a lot of truly bad QB's in the NFL right now. So the "QB-Centric" obsession does actually have a kernel of truth. I just think you're going at it from the wrong angle.

Jimmy Garroppolo is a good example of how over the top perfectionist some people have come to expect from modern QB's.

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers broke some Football fan's brains about what is normal/expected QB play.

 

[DHoey]

I can't say I agree with the premise of this thread at all. There's a very, very clear difference between guys like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Lamar, Herbert, and Burrow and everyone else. And even in that last group Mahomes and Allen are kind of in outer space right now in terms of QB play compared to the rest of that group, imo.

I will say the difference between the 12th best QB and the 25th best QB is actually pretty minimal these days. Not a lot of truly bad QB's in the NFL right now. So the "QB-Centric" obsession does actually have a kernel of truth. I just think you're going at it from the wrong angle.

Jimmy Garroppolo is a good example of how over the top perfectionist some people have come to expect from modern QB's.

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers broke some Football fan's brains about what is normal/expected QB play.

Nah, I don’t think so

 

[shopson67]

That’s the bet Seattle made….QB isn’t the end all be all like media outlets want you to think. It’s good marketing, even my mother in law will ask about who’s the QB of what team.

I think the Ravens are watching the Seattle situation awfully close……

Not exactly the Seattle situation IMO. Hitting on the right rookie QB is key for a franchise in multiple ways. Sure, you (hopefully) get your QB for years to come, but you also get him at rookie wages locked in for 4 years (and for 1st rounders, a 5th at a bit more), allowing the team to spend around him.

For teams that haven't found that QB, it does mean everything. Bills floundered between Kelly and Josh. Chicago continues to flounder. It takes an exceptional defensive unit and running game to cover for lesser QB play, which is more the exception that proves the rule than a disclaimer IMO.

 

[Iggloo]

Generally agree with the OP, that it is more than QB, and that the focus on elite QBs may be overdone at this point.

But you have to have a baseline QB to compete for an NFL championship. The odds of winning a ring without an average to above average QB are low. Stafford was an above average QB in his prime IMO. He has been more like average in recent years, but he is a veteran QB who knows how to play. The Rams never win that ring last year with Jared Goff IMO. So it's a matter of degree, and while the current obsessions with Mahomes and Allen may be a bit much, those teams also would not be anywhere near as good with above average QBs instead of great ones.

 

[Warden]

53 players on a team. It is not all about the QB

 

[Dude]

A good / great QB is the field Marshall. He looks out for everything, reports, and delivers.

Really good teams and coaches can overcome a bad / average QB situation, but most do not. You need a connection between the QB and the rest of team. Leadership.

 

[Dude]

Edit: did over simplify a bit. Obviously the QB must have above average athletic skills.