Ulterior motives at Redskins park

[j_y19]

Do you think Shanahan came up with "All in for week 1" then went to the media and said "I am on track to play in week one if no one lied to me." Sorry, Griffin helped manipulate this. He WAS being advised by his father and who knows what others. It is convenient to blame Shanahan because he isn't here. We need a scape goat. Hell the one game Shanahan did take Griffin out vs. Cleveland instead of congratulated his teammate for playing well and helping to win the game he cried like a baby about not being allowed to start.

The kid needs to be held accountable also. That also includes Dan Snyder and George Allen.

Here's the thing. You both are right. Shanahan should have grown a pair and told the kid he was on the bench until he was 100%. But you can't ignore the fact that Griffin, through the media, boxed him in with his all in for week 1 statements and his positioning about being lied to if he didn't start. If you can't see how that contributed to the demise of the relationship between these two, you are just burying your head in the sand. At the end of the day, there is no one that is not culpable in the failure of last year, including Robert. Dad, this is what ticks off Shark and others. Robert did purposely undermine his coach with such actions for his own ulterior motives (most notably and ad campaign which would have looked very silly if he didn't start). So for Griff to come out in the press last week and say that its nice that no one has ulterior motives on the team anymore is disingenuous, at best.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Do you think Shanahan came up with "All in for week 1" then went to the media and said "I am on track to play in week one if no one lied to me." Sorry, Griffin helped manipulate this. He WAS being advised by his father and who knows what others. It is convenient to blame Shanahan because he isn't here. We need a scape goat. Hell the one game Shanahan did take Griffin out vs. Cleveland instead of congratulated his teammate for playing well and helping to win the game he cried like a baby about not being allowed to start.

The kid needs to be held accountable also. That also includes Dan Snyder and George Allen.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Here's the thing. You both are right. Shanahan should have grown a pair and told the kid he was on the bench until he was 100%. But you can't ignore the fact that Griffin, through the media, boxed him in with his all in for week 1 statements and his positioning about being lied to if he didn't start. If you can't see how that contributed to the demise of the relationship between these two, you are just burying your head in the sand. At the end of the day, there is no one that is not culpable in the failure of last year, including Robert. Dad, this is what ticks off Shark and others. Robert did purposely undermine his coach with such actions for his own ulterior motives (most notably and ad campaign which would have looked very silly if he didn't start). So for Griff to come out in the press last week and say that its nice that no one has ulterior motives on the team anymore is disingenuous, at best.

Agree. I think very few skins fans blame only Griff or only The Shannyclan. I know I don't. It was the perfect storm of events: the return from injury, the amazing rookie year, the constant eye of the media in DC...add to that the personalities of all involved and voila, you get what we saw last year... A train wreck that no one could pull their eyes from or stop speculating about.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

You agree that the late George Allen or former VA Senator George Allen are partially responsible for this? Just kidding. Anyhow - all of us need to take a chill pill on this. We basically agree to disagree & again RG3 will need to prove himself over the next few seasons due to the mixed results to date. Here's to hoping for the best for him & the team.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Agree. I think very few skins fans blame only Griff or only The Shannyclan. I know I don't. It was the perfect storm of events: the return from injury, the amazing rookie year, the constant eye of the media in DC...add to that the personalities of all involved and voila, you get what we saw last year... A train wreck that no one could pull their eyes from or stop speculating about.

The previous season also disguised problems that were made obvious last season - a poor defense & special teams & some other shortcomings. Perhaps this will result in good things over the long run.

One other thing related to all of this. I appreciate many things that Shanahan did during his time with the Skins (and resent some others). However - I think this points out that no team should ever hire an ex-SB winning coach for their team.

It is seems tempting at first, but almost always results in major issues. This type of coach almost always wants to also be a GM or president (which they were not w/ previous team) and usually have an ego that gets in the way. Happened twice w/ the Skins (Gibbs II was better but he had issues).

Better just to stick with an up & coming younger coach.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Yep, most of the problem in the past (not talking immediate past) was of course, how we drafted - we didn't do an effective job replenishing the trenches appropriately (always our strength during our SB years), we went after big name FA past their prime and we had a meddling owner who was more a fan of the team than a Football IQ individual.

Then as the ship is righting, we get hit with the cap penalty right as we are trying to surround Griff with some key pieces. Unable to address depth, with a roster of aging/mediocre/bad team players we screwed the pooch.

It is what it is.

Excited to see that we finally seem to be headed in the right direction.

Can't wait for this dang season to begin, HTTR my friends

 

[skinsdad62]

derrick rose ran a similar campaign with nike when he got injured and he didnt make it and the world didnt end

RG3 made money from a nike promotion

now i can see shanny starting him week one and seeing how it would go . but at that point CSN ESPN , THE washington Post , times etc dont run the redskins .he did

yes i fully acknowledge that RG3 played a huge part in what happened last season however the experience of the trainers , doctors , personnel guys and the coaching staff should have kicked in and they should have done what was best for the team , pouting robert or not

geez who is responsible for running read option plays after the injuries and when it was obvious he wasnt right ?

the staff is a group of paid professionals and those things should have been addressed . the kid came out and said he didnt want to run those plays yet they called them anyway

so maybe he does have a bit of a bone to pick with the past staff and what they did

 

[Sharkinva]

derrick rose ran a similar campaign with nike when he got injured and he didnt make it and the world didnt end

RG3 made money from a nike promotion

now i can see shanny starting him week one and seeing how it would go . but at that point CSN ESPN , THE washington Post , times etc dont run the redskins .he did

yes i fully acknowledge that RG3 played a huge part in what happened last season however the experience of the trainers , doctors , personnel guys and the coaching staff should have kicked in and they should have done what was best for the team , pouting robert or not

geez who is responsible for running read option plays after the injuries and when it was obvious he wasnt right ?

the staff is a group of paid professionals and those things should have been addressed . the kid came out and said he didnt want to run those plays yet they called them anyway

so maybe he does have a bit of a bone to pick with the past staff and what they did

I will ask a simple question... how much MORE of a distraction would an openly pouting RG3 have been? Had Shanahan done what you suggest, you really think RG3 would have been able to keep quiet and not publically sulk and become a team distraction?? He damn near threw a hissy fit when Cousins started and won the Browns game. I think had Shanahan not started him week one, there would have been rumors of the Skins possibly trying to deal him, or of him asking to be traded.

 

[skinsdad62]

I will ask a simple question... how much MORE of a distraction would an openly pouting RG3 have been? Had Shanahan done what you suggest, you really think RG3 would have been able to keep quiet and not publically sulk and become a team distraction?? He damn near threw a hissy fit when Cousins started and won the Browns game. I think had Shanahan not started him week one, there would have been rumors of the Skins possibly trying to deal him, or of him asking to be traded.

he did the last 3 games of the year shark . that is on the record . i have seen no reports that he said or did anything publicly while he sat behind KC in those 3 games and he was healthy-er

as for the browns game i am not going to bash a guy for wanting to play the game injured or not . that is foolishness . to whine about an athlete wanting to compete is silly



also reports came out last season stating shanny wanted to quit . perhaps he simply checked out

 

[Sharkinva]

he did the last 3 games of the year shark . that is on the record . i have seen no reports that he said or did anything publicly while he sat behind KC in those 3 games and he was healthy-er

as for the browns game i am not going to bash a guy for wanting to play the game injured or not . that is foolishness . to whine about an athlete wanting to compete is silly



also reports came out last season stating shanny wanted to quit . perhaps he simply checked out

Its after the fact dude, he already had what he wanted at that point. Which was Shanahan gone. We all knew that even if Kirk came out and won those last three games Shanahan was still going to get fired. I thnk the kid is a brat and lets his ego control his temper and actions entirely too much. But I have never said he was point blank dumb. He was smart enough to know when to not complain, and even then it was always with the little cross remarks like I didnt get benched, coach shut me down.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Its after the fact dude, he already had what he wanted at that point. Which was Shanahan gone. We all knew that even if Kirk came out and won those last three games Shanahan was still going to get fired. I thnk the kid is a brat and lets his ego control his temper and actions entirely too much. But I have never said he was point blank dumb. He was smart enough to know when to not complain, and even then it was always with the little cross remarks like I didnt get benched, coach shut me down.

RG3 wanted Shanahan gone? Let' s expand that to be accurate - almost all Redskins fans wanted Shanahan gone by midseason. Losing & be disappointing is one thing. Acting like a child and being less than honest is quite another. You could be right about RG3 acting like a kid. However - Shanahan pretty much acted in the same manner which is ridiculous for a man his age. Again - lesson learned - don't hire ex-SB coaches no matter how tempting.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Serious question Shark - do you hate RG3? Maybe I am not reading your replies correctly, but I don't see anything positive about RG3 in any of your replies.

 

[Sharkinva]

Serious question Shark - do you hate RG3? Maybe I am not reading your replies correctly, but I don't see anything positive about RG3 in any of your replies.

Nope, I dont hate the kid. I do hate that so many people seem to hold him above reproach. I do dislike that he manipulated the situation and every one seems to think last years failures were all on Shanahan and Griffin was just the victim. And i do hate that he plays into that to a degree.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

MItz... I will simply ask you. When does the PLAYER have responsibility for his OWN fucking well being?? If he wasnt healthy, he should have sat his narrow ass down. But he was so insecure that he played any way for fear that Shanahan wouldnt let him on the field if he didnt start the season. Shame on SuperBob for not saying during the playoffs game, hey coach Im hurt and maybe we should I dont know, put in the backup and let him do his job. Or hey coach, I know things got fucked up in that playoffs game, but maybe I shouldnt start the season. You can hold him blameless all you want. But if Shanahan had sat him and we still lost to the SeaHawks, you would be the first one screaming HOW could he Sit Superbob with the game on the line. Because I would bet my bastard sons left nut had Shanahan sat him and we lost, Bob would have stood up there and said I dont know why coach benched me because I was still able to play.

I dunno I think Mitz hit the nail on the head on one of your previous exchanges. I beg of your return to the Jedi way, you're approaching the Dallas side. When is the last time you've seen a Captain pull himself out of a game and not be crucified by the media OR his teammates.... Tomlinson and Cutler come to mind. There's no a player volunteers to leave a game, they all say...they have to be knocked out of one. Yes Robert has been a jerk, that's why the coach...is there to put in the back up draft QB trained for his chance to game manage seattle, and start the 2013 season. Both blown oppurnities by the COACH, whether the QB would have cried or not. As Mitz stated, Shanahan SUCKED before RGIII got there, and was humiliating his stars for fun. Shanny was a great draft guy but really, really lost his touch

 

[Sharkinva]

I dunno I think Mitz hit the nail on the head on one of your previous exchanges. I beg of your return to the Jedi way, you're approaching the Dallas side. When is the last time you've seen a Captain pull himself out of a game and not be crucified by the media OR his teammates.... Tomlinson and Cutler come to mind. There's no a player volunteers to leave a game, they all say...they have to be knocked out of one. Yes Robert has been a jerk, that's why the coach...is there to put in the back up draft QB trained for his chance to game manage seattle, and start the 2013 season. Both blown oppurnities by the COACH, whether the QB would have cried or not. As Mitz stated, Shanahan SUCKED before RGIII got there, and was humiliating his stars for fun. Shanny was a great draft guy but really, really lost his touch

Dude.. dont get me wrong. Im fine with him wanting to play and stay in the game. BUt to then flip it and take the veiled shots saying well it was all coaches fault to me is a wuss move. TO go on a media campaign to paint the coach into a corner if the coach actually decides to do his job, again wuss move. And to keep throwing the veiled jabs after the guy is gone, yep you guessed it... wuss move. Shanahan was handed the worst roster in the division if not the conference. Remember that Zorn the year before had finished 4-12. So what did you honestly expect being handed a 4-12 team with no cap room and a bunch of malcontents. And had Shanahan tried to turn our option QB into a pocket passer his rookie year, I wholly believe we would have again been a 4-6 win team. We saw last year that without the read option RG3 becomes average bob.


But I guess we will see this year if RG3 is as good as Mitz seems to think. Personally I think last year was closer to the measure of RG3 as a traditional QB, and wont be shocked to see him fall back on his instincts of being a running QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

BTW Skinem.... exactly which stars did Shanahan try and humiliate?? Please tell me you were not refering to that lazy individual known as Haynesworth?? For the amount of money we paid him, I dont care if coach asked him to shake pom-poms when the offense was on the field, the only answer he should have given was yes coach.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Dude.. dont get me wrong. Im fine with him wanting to play and stay in the game. BUt to then flip it and take the veiled shots saying well it was all coaches fault to me is a wuss move. TO go on a media campaign to paint the coach into a corner if the coach actually decides to do his job, again wuss move. And to keep throwing the veiled jabs after the guy is gone, yep you guessed it... wuss move. Shanahan was handed the worst roster in the division if not the conference. Remember that Zorn the year before had finished 4-12. So what did you honestly expect being handed a 4-12 team with no cap room and a bunch of malcontents. And had Shanahan tried to turn our option QB into a pocket passer his rookie year, I wholly believe we would have again been a 4-6 win team. We saw last year that without the read option RG3 becomes average bob.


But I guess we will see this year if RG3 is as good as Mitz seems to think. Personally I think last year was closer to the measure of RG3 as a traditional QB, and wont be shocked to see him fall back on his instincts of being a running QB.

I'm not saying its right, but isn't it somewhat expected? I'm sure his endorsement teams had a lot to do with all in for week 1. but true, maybe he could have had some input to change that, and true the televised espn rehab comeback where everyone, the owner, bruce allen, the griffins...EVERYONE except shanahan was in the recovery room after surgery...maybe that wasn't good either. And then to bench Griffin due to CONDUCT(like hanseworth, and McNabb) and not really performance....that had to devastate the young captain.But i will admit he shouldn't have taken that shot, although it must have felt good.
I wouldn't mention Zorn...considering and injury to Portis is the only reason he was knocked out of MVP talk and the team missed the playoffs...Portis joined Barry Sanders 100+ games record and Zorn finished with a better season record than Shanahan before RGIII...

I will agree with you that Shanahan did "cripple" RGIII both professionally and literally by not thinking he was talented enough to be a pocket passer his rookie year. His sophomore season was still decent TD/INT wise. He would have been miles ahead if they let him fail his first year....but that's what happens when coaches don't trust players. Looks like he was talented enough to carry the team with a gimmick offense in '12

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm not saying its right, but isn't it somewhat expected? I'm sure his endorsement teams had a lot to do with all in for week 1. but true, maybe he could have had some input to change that, and true the televised espn rehab comeback where everyone, the owner, bruce allen, the griffins...EVERYONE except shanahan was in the recovery room after surgery...maybe that wasn't good either. And then to bench Griffin due to CONDUCT(like hanseworth, and McNabb) and not really performance....that had to devastate the young captain.But i will admit he shouldn't have taken that shot, although it must have felt good.
I wouldn't mention Zorn...considering and injury to Portis is the only reason he was knocked out of MVP talk and the team missed the playoffs...Portis joined Barry Sanders 100+ games record and Zorn finished with a better season record than Shanahan before RGIII...

I will agree with you that Shanahan did "cripple" RGIII both professionally and literally by not thinking he was talented enough to be a pocket passer his rookie year. His sophomore season was still decent TD/INT wise. He would have been miles ahead if they let him fail his first year....but that's what happens when coaches don't trust players. Looks like he was talented enough to carry the team with a gimmick offense in '12

So let me ask you. If RG3 had played more as a traditional passer in 2012 and the team finished 4-12, how many fans do you think would have given Shanahan a pass?? Most would have been calling for his head at that point. And a coach SHOULD have the right to bench a player for conduct irrespective of who the player is. If a coach doesnt have that power, you end up with a Zorn type situation. And since you mention Zorn had a better winning percentage than Shanahan I will simply point out, his first year was primarily with Gibbs roster. The fact that we didnt finish worse than 4-12 his second year was a miracle. But would you still want Zorn over the past four seasons since he had a better win percentage than Shanahan?? McNabb didnt want to do what the coaches needed him to do, so he got benched. Haynesworth didnt want to even show up in shape, so he got embarrassed. Lastly I dont think Shanahan crippled Rg3 career at all. I think RG3 is an option QB, and we have seen what happens when teams think they can make an option QB into a pocket passer. So this year should be very interesting.

 

[Mitziman]

Shark, have you ever wondered why so many of Shanahan's former star/starting QB's, not back up quarterbacks...never have anything good to say about him?

On another note, this was an interesting article I remember reading last year on Hogs Heaven. Opinions will vary, but you cant hide from the truth of Shanahan's reign in Washington.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/12/9/5191564/must-read-mike-shanahans-brilliant-last-act-by-kc-clyburn

 

[Sportster 72]

Here's the thing. You both are right. Shanahan should have grown a pair and told the kid he was on the bench until he was 100%. But you can't ignore the fact that Griffin, through the media, boxed him in with his all in for week 1 statements and his positioning about being lied to if he didn't start. If you can't see how that contributed to the demise of the relationship between these two, you are just burying your head in the sand. At the end of the day, there is no one that is not culpable in the failure of last year, including Robert. Dad, this is what ticks off Shark and others. Robert did purposely undermine his coach with such actions for his own ulterior motives (most notably and ad campaign which would have looked very silly if he didn't start). So for Griff to come out in the press last week and say that its nice that no one has ulterior motives on the team anymore is disingenuous, at best.

This is actually my point, there is enough blame to go around it's not just Robert, and it's not just Shanahan. How do you get the leading ortho doctor in US sports to look like a boob. The Redskins managed that.

It is all in the past. What we have to wait and see is how things move forward with Griffen, Gruden, Allen etc. What if Robert struggles early, does he submarine Gruden? What does Gruden do if Robert struggles? How do they all act and what do they say? Of course if the offense takes off then none of these potential problems exist. Winning and success cures all.