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[Rockinkuwait]

I think you made your point.

Other teams front offices... Two #1s is olajuwon and Yao. It's Duncan and Robinson. Magic and worthy. Larry Johnson and Anthony Davis. Shaq and Webber. Franchise changers.


In Cleveland your standards are so low it's a #5 scorer who disappeared in the finals and is on the bench for Richard Jefferson in crunch time. It's a guy you know you are a good lottery pick if you have to rely on him to be the man.

It's such a lower standard with that front office lately and thank you for proving it there. I couldn't have made your point better myself.

 

[Nosferatu]

How anyone could list any team first other than Minnesota is crazy to me, they have been run beyond shitty since day one!

Starting with drafting Shit Richardson their draft choices have been one failure after another aside from KG, Glen Taylor losing the franchise a hand full of first round picks for Joe Smith.

As bad as they have been run they have been just as unlucky.

Worst record in 1991-92 only to end up with the third pick and getting stuck with Christian Laettner, how much does their history change if they end up with Shaq for four years?!?!

 

[WiggyRuss]

-=

So you are saying take it back another pick and add in Elgin Baylor.


Remind me how many titles those guys got?

More than the nuggets and there 2 playoff series wins in 25 years. LOL

cmon, any conversation that does not begin and end iwth a team that has won 2 playoff series in 25 years is just crazy.

The Cavs are the Patriots/Spurs/Yankees all mixed together cmopared to the Nuggets. lol

 

[Rockinkuwait]

-=

More than the nuggets and there 2 playoff series wins in 25 years. LOL

cmon, any conversation that does not begin and end iwth a team that has won 2 playoff series in 25 years is just crazy.

The Cavs are the Patriots/Spurs/Yankees all mixed together cmopared to the Nuggets. lol

A Cleveland fan talking to someone about pro-sports success is like hearing Charles Barkley try and tell Tiger Woods his golf swing needs work. It's like if Jim Kelly sat down Brady, Yogi Berra, Jordan and Bill Russell and felt he should explain to them what it takes to win it all. Or like Scott Norwood telling Adam Vinatieri what being Clutch means.

That cities sports history for over 50 years has been a groundhog day existence of cheering for the opponents of the Dream Team.

The best front office in Cleveland's last 50 years was run by Kevin Costner in a movie.

What was that all time record you had going? 147 seasons of pro-sports without a championship? And having to live in a real life scooby-doo ghost town to live through that?

Come on man, you live on a city with the nickname of "the Mistake on the Lake".

Cleveland... where all our fish have aids
Cleveland... leading the nation in drifters since 1968
Cleveland... here's the place where Industry used to exist
Thieveland... come for the river we catch on fire every few years... Stay because someone stole your car.
Cleveland... Our sports logo options are brown, or just plain racist.
Cleveland... if depression was a place, it would be somewhere happier than here.


The only top 5 thing cleveland has going for it is constantly being on the worst cities to live in lists.


So go throw another 0-16 parade, knowing BOTH the previous NFL franchises you guys lost won multiple Superbowls.


Honest question though, do you ever look outside and say "wow the Walking Dead should have shot on location here, they wouldn't have had to change hardly a thing, just clean it up a bit."



Honestly, though can't wait to be out in Canton and Cleveland this year, R&R and NFL HOF trips.

I let others drag me down into dumb off-topic things, but yeah, I'm still going to say I really wished they could have turned that into more. Lebron and that draft stock into one championship is awesome, but upsetting at how much more it had the potential to be if they'd not messed up as much as they did. But at least he brought home the one.

I'll say when it comes to the worst outcome, sure, they aren't bottom 3, probably top 3-5 since drafting Lebron. But all of that success seems to revolve around one person, and it's tough to say another team had more set up to form a dynasty and didn't.

 

[logic]

Pistons are trying to move into the competition. What do they most need? Outside shooting because they only have one guy who is doing it consistently, Reggie Bullock. So, what do they do? Make a move for a shooter? No, they move Reggie Bullock!

 

[dtgold88]

Maybe they do. I don't live in fantasy land. In the real world they are now having their worst season of the past three.

I don't know if you were aware, but that Lebron fellow left. Outside of moving the city of Cleveland near the Pacific, the cavs had no way to keep him.

 

[lebron23james]

Three number 1 picks and 2 number four picks acquired in 4 years. That's more elite draft capital some teams have gotten in 40 years or the history of their franchise. It was amazing. Biggest four year haul BY Far (unless you want to show me a bigger one) in nba history.


And JR and his 10 points a game was nice. I still think Drummond or Lillard are both better. But that's me.

Why would they draft Lillard if they had Kyrie. That would make no sense. The guy drafted below Waiters the cavs pick is out of the NBA and in the Russian League. They could have taken that guy too? You can't go back in the past and draft the best players in retrospect.

The lakers had 3 #2 picks in a row...And added Lebron, do they look better than the Cavs right now?

 

[lebron23james]

A Cleveland fan talking to someone about pro-sports success is like hearing Charles Barkley try and tell Tiger Woods his golf swing needs work. It's like if Jim Kelly sat down Brady, Yogi Berra, Jordan and Bill Russell and felt he should explain to them what it takes to win it all. Or like Scott Norwood telling Adam Vinatieri what being Clutch means.

That cities sports history for over 50 years has been a groundhog day existence of cheering for the opponents of the Dream Team.

The best front office in Cleveland's last 50 years was run by Kevin Costner in a movie.

What was that all time record you had going? 147 seasons of pro-sports without a championship? And having to live in a real life scooby-doo ghost town to live through that?

Come on man, you live on a city with the nickname of "the Mistake on the Lake".

Cleveland... where all our fish have aids
Cleveland... leading the nation in drifters since 1968
Cleveland... here's the place where Industry used to exist
Thieveland... come for the river we catch on fire every few years... Stay because someone stole your car.
Cleveland... Our sports logo options are brown, or just plain racist.
Cleveland... if depression was a place, it would be somewhere happier than here.


The only top 5 thing cleveland has going for it is constantly being on the worst cities to live in lists.


So go throw another 0-16 parade, knowing BOTH the previous NFL franchises you guys lost won multiple Superbowls.


Honest question though, do you ever look outside and say "wow the Walking Dead should have shot on location here, they wouldn't have had to change hardly a thing, just clean it up a bit."



Honestly, though can't wait to be out in Canton and Cleveland this year, R&R and NFL HOF trips.

I let others drag me down into dumb off-topic things, but yeah, I'm still going to say I really wished they could have turned that into more. Lebron and that draft stock into one championship is awesome, but upsetting at how much more it had the potential to be if they'd not messed up as much as they did. But at least he brought home the one.

I'll say when it comes to the worst outcome, sure, they aren't bottom 3, probably top 3-5 since drafting Lebron. But all of that success seems to revolve around one person, and it's tough to say another team had more set up to form a dynasty and didn't.

You are getting butthurt here kid.

First, Cleveland's economy has been doing great....Ever been there lately?

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Second, what players would you have drafted that would have been able to beat the GS warriors with Durant? How do you know those players weren't going to be traded anyways for Love, a guy Lebron wanted? Would you have gone against Lebron's wishes and then what if he decides not to come back? I lived in Boston for 14 years, i have seen more than my share of championships. The only reason they weren't a dynasty was because of how great GS was...That was more bad timing and injuries. Overall, anyone with a brain considers what they did successful, including their picks and trades. To expect every pick to be a success, and then ignore trades is pretty comical to say the least.

 

[dtgold88]

I think you made your point.

Other teams front offices... Two #1s is olajuwon and Yao. It's Duncan and Robinson. Magic and worthy. Larry Johnson and Anthony Davis. Shaq and Webber. Franchise changers.

Lebron and Kyrie

 

[dtgold88]

You are getting butthurt here kid.

First, Cleveland's economy has been doing great....Ever been there lately?

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Second, what players would you have drafted that would have been able to beat the GS warriors with Durant? How do you know those players weren't going to be traded anyways for Love, a guy Lebron wanted? Would you have gone against Lebron's wishes and then what if he decides not to come back? I lived in Boston for 14 years, i have seen more than my share of championships. The only reason they weren't a dynasty was because of how great GS was...That was more bad timing and injuries. Overall, anyone with a brain considers what they did successful, including their picks and trades. To expect every pick to be a success, and then ignore trades is pretty comical to say the least.

so many just ignore this (even Cavs' fans who rip the FO). They played for 4 titles, won 1, and beat a team no one else could beat...while losing to that same team who no one could beat and many call best team ever.

It's not like they got a shot at the Mavs like Miami did.

 

[lebron23james]

Lebron and Kyrie

I swear this kid is a retard lol

 

[lebron23james]

so many just ignore this (even Cavs' fans who rip the FO). They played for 4 titles, won 1, and beat a team no one else could beat...while losing to that same team who no one could beat and many call best team ever.

It's not like they got a shot at the Mavs like Miami did.

Timing wasn't great with how great GS turned out, otherwise they would have won 3-4 maybe more. Injuries the first year to Kyrie and Love didn't help. Overall most Cavs fans are happy with what transpired.

There is no guarantee that a team even makes a finals. NO never did with Anthony Davis. OKC never won with Durant/westbrook/Harden...Many haven't ever played in a finals and half the NBA has not even won a single championship including his Nuggets. There actually is a lot of luck involved, regarding competition, injuries, matchups, etc

 

[WiggyRuss]

A Cleveland fan talking to someone about pro-sports success is like hearing Charles Barkley try and tell Tiger Woods his golf swing needs work. It's like if Jim Kelly sat down Brady, Yogi Berra, Jordan and Bill Russell and felt he should explain to them what it takes to win it all. Or like Scott Norwood telling Adam Vinatieri what being Clutch means.

That cities sports history for over 50 years has been a groundhog day existence of cheering for the opponents of the Dream Team.

The best front office in Cleveland's last 50 years was run by Kevin Costner in a movie.

What was that all time record you had going? 147 seasons of pro-sports without a championship? And having to live in a real life scooby-doo ghost town to live through that?

Come on man, you live on a city with the nickname of "the Mistake on the Lake".

Cleveland... where all our fish have aids
Cleveland... leading the nation in drifters since 1968
Cleveland... here's the place where Industry used to exist
Thieveland... come for the river we catch on fire every few years... Stay because someone stole your car.
Cleveland... Our sports logo options are brown, or just plain racist.
Cleveland... if depression was a place, it would be somewhere happier than here.


The only top 5 thing cleveland has going for it is constantly being on the worst cities to live in lists.


So go throw another 0-16 parade, knowing BOTH the previous NFL franchises you guys lost won multiple Superbowls.


Honest question though, do you ever look outside and say "wow the Walking Dead should have shot on location here, they wouldn't have had to change hardly a thing, just clean it up a bit."



Honestly, though can't wait to be out in Canton and Cleveland this year, R&R and NFL HOF trips.

I let others drag me down into dumb off-topic things, but yeah, I'm still going to say I really wished they could have turned that into more. Lebron and that draft stock into one championship is awesome, but upsetting at how much more it had the potential to be if they'd not messed up as much as they did. But at least he brought home the one.

I'll say when it comes to the worst outcome, sure, they aren't bottom 3, probably top 3-5 since drafting Lebron. But all of that success seems to revolve around one person, and it's tough to say another team had more set up to form a dynasty and didn't.

lol...little butt hurt huh buddy?

dont be so angry!!!!

I mean how many decades will go by without the nuggets even MAKING the Finals let alone winning one? lol

and, i gotta say

I am glad the Browns passed on the perpetually broken, and apparently an asshole of a teammate in Wentz for Baker Mayfield.

I take Baker all day over Carson Mr. Glass Wentz. lol

Philly should just trade him and keep Foles who is actually good.

 

[WiggyRuss]

"well yah the Cavs woudlnt be any good either if they didnt have Kyrie and LeBron"

lol..


well yah-- no shit sherlock. lol

the thing is- they DID draft Kyrie and LeBron.

 

[lebron23james]

"well yah the Cavs woudlnt be any good either if they didnt have Kyrie and LeBron"

lol..


well yah-- no shit sherlock. lol

the thing is- they DID draft Kyrie and LeBron.

This video pretty much breaks it down and is a good watch @Rockinkuwait

I will say i disagree with one point by Max. First year the Cavs had 2 major injuries. Also, the reason the Cavs couldn't get any better after GS got better was because Lebron got his buddies massive contracts and nobody was available to the level of Kevin Durant anyways. So they had no cap room after signing 2 stars.

Notice he doesn't say the Cavs missed on their top draft picks...So you entire argument was ruined in one foul swoop

 

[lebron23james]

"well yah the Cavs woudlnt be any good either if they didnt have Kyrie and LeBron"

lol..


well yah-- no shit sherlock. lol

the thing is- they DID draft Kyrie and LeBron.

He claims the other players "could" have been better in "retrospect" but fails to consider that they could have also been "worse" and or still traded for what Lebron wanted, which was Love

Also he then goes on to say they could have got somebody better, but fails to explain how would they have been able to afford to keep him? Would they have had the money to sign 4 max contracts and then what happened to the role players? Even his what if scenario's wouldn't have worked out. The reason GS was able to get 4 superstars signed was because they took less money. That was impossible with Lebron getting his role players overpaid and not taking a discount like Durant

 

[The Q]

After this trade today, I vote the wizards first...

 

[Rockinkuwait]

This video pretty much breaks it down and is a good watch @Rockinkuwait

I will say i disagree with one point by Max. First year the Cavs had 2 major injuries. Also, the reason the Cavs couldn't get any better after GS got better was because Lebron got his buddies massive contracts and nobody was available to the level of Kevin Durant anyways. So they had no cap room after signing 2 stars.

Notice he doesn't say the Cavs missed on their top draft picks...So you entire argument was ruined in one foul swoop

HAHAHAHA!!!! You do realize Stephen A Smith for YEARS has been saying the Cavs screwed up by getting Love right? He's been saying they need to trade him for years. But THAT is what you want to show? Please tell me you are wanting to tell me you like Stephen A as a viable source on their front office... PLEASE. Because he was very talkative about their coaches, about JR, About the Irving trade, about Love, about what the cavs squandered.

Lol... because they didn't say Anthony Bennett was a bad pick, he therefore had to be a great one. You are actually believing that?

Great point on the paying top dollar for two stars. That was a big loss, not just with handing over all the picks for Love, but adding a massive salary that limited them substantially like you say.

And "nobody was available". Lots of role players were. And Isiah Thomas went to Boston for basically nothing.

In the end, you are right, they struggled to add talent with no rookie scale depth. For Bynum/Jack/Deng, Love, rights to Murpy (never played), Shumpert, JR, and Mozgov in the few months before and after adding Lebron:

Cleveland gave up a 1st overall pick
The previous years #1 pick
The previous years #4 pick
8 other first round picks
6 other 2nd round picks
Their trade exemption.


Yeah, no crap they had no money to spend. They gave up a LOT of value for a couple role players and Love. and like you said, took themselves out of the much better free agent market of 2014 to boot.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Basically looking at the different draft value charts based on performance of picks, 2 #1's and 1 #4 work out to about 7-8 mid round picks. And they gave up another 8 future picks where we don't know where they would fall.

So you are saying if a team came up and said we will give you our next 16 first round picks for Love, and 5 role players, you think that team is making the right move.

Thanks.. You've had days now to find a worse haul for those picks. You can't. 82 games shows the historical value of a pick based on it's slot

3 #1's each show a 70% chance for a star. They got that once.

2 #4's each show a 60% chance for a star. They got that zero times.



So basic probabilities based on NBA history:

They had a 99.6% chance to get one star (Irving, they did).
A 95.6% chance to draft two ( they didn't)
A 79.5% chance to draft three (they didn't come close).
And a 49% chance to get 4 out of 5.

That's why you can't find a worse use of draft picks after two straight days with what they had. It's happened once. Cleveland from 2012-2014.

 

[lebron23james]

Basically looking at the different draft value charts based on performance of picks, 2 #1's and 1 #4 work out to about 7-8 mid round picks. And they gave up another 8 future picks where we don't know where they would fall.

So you are saying if a team came up and said we will give you our next 16 first round picks for Love, and 5 role players, you think that team is making the right move.

Thanks.. You've had days now to find a worse haul for those picks. You can't. 82 games shows the historical value of a pick based on it's slot

3 #1's each show a 70% chance for a star. They got that once.

2 #4's each show a 60% chance for a star. They got that zero times.



So basic probabilities based on NBA history:

They had a 99.6% chance to get one star (Irving, they did).
A 95.6% chance to draft two ( they didn't)
A 79.5% chance to draft three (they didn't come close).
And a 49% chance to get 4 out of 5.

That's why you can't find a worse use of draft picks after two straight days with what they had. It's happened once. Cleveland from 2012-2014.

What are you babbling about now? lol

They had 4 #1 picks. 3 of the 4 became stars. Irving, Lebron and Wiggins. They traded Bennett for Love, another star. That is 4/4 or 100% on getting stars with their #1 pick.

In the 2012, 13 and 14 drafts the guy they selected Dion Waiters, is he any worse than Michael kid Gilchrist the #2 pick?

In the 2013 draft after Bennett who was traded for love, there is Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller, Alex Len...None of those players would have stayed with the Cavs and would have been included in the Love trade either way. None of those guys puts us over the top vs GS with Durant

In the 2014 draft after Wiggins there was Jabari Parker, who ended up worse than Wiggins.

You are grasping at straws here kid.