Top Three Most Poorly Operated NBA Franchises

[lebron23james]

You are also confusing regular season record with how a team would do in the playoffs with s star. Celtics probably win game 7 against the Cavs last year if Kyrie played.

You also don't understand the NBA is a business, and some teams could care less about winning. The cavs never spent a ton of money until they wanted to win, and guess what they won. Tons of franchises have spent tons of money with nothing to show. The Cavs are not one of them...

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Are you stupid? The draft is a crap shoot. Yes, why don't we all go back and take the best players in retrospect, great idea! lmfao

People passed on Jordan. The Cavs overall have drafted pretty well. Compare that to the wizards, knicks, magic, etc...Your entire argument makes no sense. Are you saying they should have drafted the best player with every pick? lol

Kyrie was the first pick in the draft. The next two was Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter, Jan Veasley and Bismack Biyimbo. I think the Cavs are happy with their pick over those players.

If you watched the 2016 finals Love stopped Curry on the last play of the game in game 7. Well i didn't love, love...Lebron wanted him and not trading him and pissing lebron off would have been dumber. I see why you are not a GM

The cavs have not drafted well. They had a team with 3 first overall picks and 2 more at #4 overall, plus about 8 other first round picks in a 4 year span to work with. More draft capital at the top than some franchises have seen in their entire existance. And they got it in 4 years. They spent 4 of those first round picks on the Bynum/Jack disaster of an offseason. They spent two #1 overall picks on Love and his 8 points a game in their finals win, and 4 wins without Lebron in 28 games.

They got Kyrie and TT which are fine picks, Got the 3rd and 7th best players with the 1st and 4th picks. Not value, but they didn't flub the crap out of them.

But where's the pick they came out ahead of the curve on? You say it's luck. Where's them in the 2nd saying we need a big man, lets get Draymond Green (he actually was picked by GS the pick after Cleveland picked another big man who did nothing). Why are they having to turn multiple 1st overall picks into huge salary decent 3rd options? Why are they having to turn #4 overall picks into JR Smith? Because they keep missing over. And over... And over... And over...



But how can you always be so unlucky? Seriously, 4 times they've drafted a good player ahead of where he should have gone. And ALL 4 TIMES they traded him.

The 2013 draft they took the worst player in the draft, until they took the only player worse than him. Until they took the only player worse than him. And the ONLY player of value they drafted, they traded for nothing.

So you are saying teams spending millions on scouts and GM's is just a waste?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You are also confusing regular season record with how a team would do in the playoffs with s star. Celtics probably win game 7 against the Cavs last year if Kyrie played.

You also don't understand the NBA is a business, and some teams could care less about winning. The cavs never spent a ton of money until they wanted to win, and guess what they won. Tons of franchises have spent tons of money with nothing to show. The Cavs are not one of them...

Maybe they do. I don't live in fantasy land. In the real world they are now having their worst season of the past three.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

What was Kyrie's record when Lebron sat, and why don't you take a guess how many times Lebron sat, Kyrie also sat and Love? How did you figure that into the equation. Discuss

Your entire argument is retarded. You are comparing regular season games to try and say IT is better than Kyrie. Try harder next time, it's embarrassing tbh

Nope, you can check them up. Kyrie without Lebron in Cleveland is awful
Love without Lebron in Cleveland is awful. Kyrie + Love without Lebron is 2-12. Hows that good?

I'm not saying IT is better than Kyrie. I am saying you saying Boston is doing great when they were winning more with IT than Kyrie is questionable at best.

 

[Zoop]

Nets
Sonics
Grizzlies

 

[Rockinkuwait]

People passed on Jordan. The Cavs overall have drafted pretty well. Compare that to the wizards, knicks, magic, etc...Your entire argument makes no sense. Are you saying they should have drafted the best player with every pick? lol

Ok lets Discuss bud.

Last 5 Cavs top 4 picks. Wiggins, Bennett, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson and Kyrie

Magic last 5 top 4 picks Gordon, Oladipo, Howard, Webber, Shaq.

Knicks, last 5 top 4. Kristaps, Ewing, Cartwright, MR Richardson, and Cazzie Russell

Wizards last 5 top 4. Porter, Beal, Wall, Kwame, and Rasheed Wallace

Nuggets last 5 top 4. Melo, LaFrentz, Abdul Rauf, Motumbo and that's it. IN 4 years the Cavs literally had more elite picks than the entire 50+ years the Nuggets have been in existence.


Why are you saying those others are worse? Why would you say you'd rather have Kyrie, TT and Wiggins over Shaq, Webber and Howard?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Nets
Sonics
Grizzlies

Nets last 5 top 4. Favors, Kmart, Anderson, Coleman and Morris
Sonics/Thunder last 5 top 4. Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Gary Payton and Xavier McDaniel
Grizzlies last 5 top 4 Jackson, Thabeet, Conley, Gooden, and Swift.

I think we've found the one that's worse. And remember those teams for the most part spent 30-40 years to accumulate the picks that Cleveland got in 4 years. Insane isn't it?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

OKC had Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka and Durant and that led to 0 rings.

Great choice here. Cleveland had MORE draft ammo for elite players than OKC has had since the mid 1980's.

But lets take their last 5 top 4 picks and add Lebron to the mix. If they had Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Gary Payton, and Xavier McDaniels, and added a free agent Lebron James in his prime.... do you think 1 championship would be a success for that team if they got to start with that?

 

[msgkings322]

You keep moving the goal posts. First, it's the Cavs don't draft well. Well they drafted Lebron and Kyrie, and turned Bennett into Kevin Love. You know there are organizations that passed over Jordan right? So picking Lebron and Kyrie was not a guarantee to be successful, they just happened to be great picks, in case you didn't notice.

Then you go on to say couldn't you at least had a dynasty? Like it's so easy to just have a dynasty lol. Having a dynasty requires a lot of luck. For example, if GS didn't become possibly the best team in the history of the NBA, then yes they most likely would have 4 championships right now. OKC had Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka and Durant and that led to 0 rings.

Here is a list of NBA teams that have never even played in the finals or won a single championship. Indiana Pacers, Charlotte Hornets, OKC Thunder, Brooklyn Nets, Memphis Grizzlies, Toronto Raptors, Utah Jazz, Phoenix Suns, New Orleans Pelicans, Los Angeles Clippers, Your Denver Nuggets, Orlando Magic, Minnesota Timberwolves....Discuss

Jazz, Thunder, Pacers, Magic, Nets all played in the Finals. Epic fail.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You are also confusing regular season record with how a team would do in the playoffs with s star. Celtics probably win game 7 against the Cavs last year if Kyrie played.

You also don't understand the NBA is a business, and some teams could care less about winning. The cavs never spent a ton of money until they wanted to win, and guess what they won. Tons of franchises have spent tons of money with nothing to show. The Cavs are not one of them...

And I agree with you that some owners are cheap. And it must suck to be a FO with an ownership that doesn't even try to win.

Jazz, Thunder, Magic, Nets all played in the Finals. Epic fail.

I think he's actually meaning to do championship-less teams. Which is true. Cleveland got one.

But like I am showing here they had 40 years worth of elite draft picks in a 4 year span leading up to adding Lebron James in his prime. I mean sure, if the Bulls won a single championship with Jordan and then messed up draft picks and were so bad when he left for baseball they were a basement team immediately, and he came back but went to NY... That's still a huge success for Chicago to win it's first title. But should we judge them hard since their bad moves cost them another 5?

I get teams have failed. But none in a LONG time (talking Russells Celtics) has been given more to succeed.

Five top 4 picks including 3 #1's like I said, some franchises haven't seen that in their entire history and this happens to them in 4 years.

And adding arguably the greatest NBA player in history in his prime. And 1 championship and a 4 year run is all they could make out of it? A second time where the second he leaves they are fighting to be the worst team in the NBA. One guy keeping them from that. It's insane.

 

[CitySushi]

Great choice here. Cleveland had MORE draft ammo for elite players than OKC has had since the mid 1980's.

But lets take their last 5 top 4 picks and add Lebron to the mix. If they had Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Gary Payton, and Xavier McDaniels, and added a free agent Lebron James in his prime.... do you think 1 championship would be a success for that team if they got to start with that?

Yes 1 Championship would legit be success because fireworks would have erupted watching GP and Westbrook discuss shot selection.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

He seems to be playing fine as the leader of Boston, they have a better record than Lebrons lakers right now...

He joined a 53 win team and now they are on track for.... just under 52 wins. They were a game from the NBA finals last year. Tied for 5th seed this year.

And Lebron's lakers were 21-14 when he plays. And they had a higher seed in the West. Some would say the West is tougher than the east (including Boston who's only 1 game over .500 against the west).

Feel free to discuss with me Boston's record with/without Kyrie and the Lakers record with/without Lebron lately and which is more impressive. I would love that conversation.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Yes 1 Championship would legit be success because fireworks would have erupted watching GP and Westbrook discuss shot selection.

lol... my guess is a guard would be getting traded and winning MVP or DPOY for some other team.

But isn't that crazy that you have to go back to Xman to find the elite picks that Cleveland had in 4 short years.

I'm trying to find a 4 year stretch of taking those picks that's worse at random.

IE for example just picking 2000 as the starting year.



2000, 1/4 was Kmart and Fizer
2001 at 4 was Eddy curry (I was getting worried).

Then 02 and 03 are Yao and Lebron. Yup, that group is better.

1990. Coleman and Dennis Scott (yay for 3D)
1991 Dikembe
1992 Shaq
1993 Webber

1980 was Joe Berry Carrol and Kelvin Ransey (both decent but not good)
1981 Al wood (looking bad now)
1982 and 1983 are Worthy and Sampson, game over again

Going mid decades.

1995 Joe Smith and Sheed
1996 Starbury
1997 Duncan
1998 Olakwandi

1985 Ewing and Xman
1986 Chuck Person
1987 David Robinson
1988 Danny Manning

Even trying to find the worst intentionally looking at the #1's, like going Dwight Howard, Bargnani and Oden, then seeing where the #4's fall I still get Dwight and CP3 to pair with Lebron. Or Wiggins Simmons and Fultz I am still adding Porzingis and Aaron Gordon.


It's tough to find anything as bad as the Cavs draft. That's why I can't say they did ok with it. If I struggle to find anything worse than it, why would I call that ok?

 

[CitySushi]

lol... my guess is a guard would be getting traded and winning MVP or DPOY for some other team.

But isn't that crazy that you have to go back to Xman to find the elite picks that Cleveland had in 4 short years.

I'm trying to find a 4 year stretch of taking those picks that's worse at random.

IE for example just picking 2000 as the starting year.



2000, 1/4 was Kmart and Fizer
2001 at 4 was Eddy curry (I was getting worried).

Then 02 and 03 are Yao and Lebron. Yup, that group is better.

1990. Coleman and Dennis Scott (yay for 3D)
1991 Dikembe
1992 Shaq
1993 Webber

1980 was Joe Berry Carrol and Kelvin Ransey (both decent but not good)
1981 Al wood (looking bad now)
1982 and 1983 are Worthy and Sampson, game over again

Going mid decades.

1995 Joe Smith and Sheed
1996 Starbury
1997 Duncan
1998 Olakwandi

1985 Ewing and Xman
1986 Chuck Person
1987 David Robinson
1988 Danny Manning

Even trying to find the worst intentionally looking at the #1's, like going Dwight Howard, Bargnani and Oden, then seeing where the #4's fall I still get Dwight and CP3 to pair with Lebron. Or Wiggins Simmons and Fultz I am still adding Porzingis and Aaron Gordon.


It's tough to find anything as bad as the Cavs draft. That's why I can't say they did ok with it. If I struggle to find anything worse than it, why would I call that ok?

Warriors:
1994 - Clifford Rozier
1995 - Joe Smith
1996 - Todd Fuller
1997 - Adonal Foyle

Those were dark days....

 

[aubie2006]

Feel like the Knicks should be in the Top 3. Maybe swap out the Timberwolves.

Totally agree with the other 2.

 

[CitySushi]

Also Warriors:
2005 - Ike Diogu
2006 - Patrick O'Bryant
2007 - Mikael Pietrus
2008 - Anthony Randolph

But thank god for 2009.

 

[lebron23james]

Ok lets Discuss bud.

Last 5 Cavs top 4 picks. Wiggins, Bennett, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson and Kyrie

Magic last 5 top 4 picks Gordon, Oladipo, Howard, Webber, Shaq.

Knicks, last 5 top 4. Kristaps, Ewing, Cartwright, MR Richardson, and Cazzie Russell

Wizards last 5 top 4. Porter, Beal, Wall, Kwame, and Rasheed Wallace

Nuggets last 5 top 4. Melo, LaFrentz, Abdul Rauf, Motumbo and that's it. IN 4 years the Cavs literally had more elite picks than the entire 50+ years the Nuggets have been in existence.


Why are you saying those others are worse? Why would you say you'd rather have Kyrie, TT and Wiggins over Shaq, Webber and Howard?

You keep changing around the subject lol. Why did Orlando not have a dynasty with Howard, Webber and Shaq? Why did none of those other teams win? I thought it's easy right?

So is it the Cavs drafted badly how did they manage to win? You seem confused.

 

[broncosmitty]

As shitty as Gilbert can be Chris Illitch is a complete waste of air. I wish Gilbert would buy the Tigers.

Nothing like self entitled pricks who inherit a legendary franchise like the Red Wings and Tigers and run them into the ground.

Wow.

I really like Chris.


Dan Gilbert seems like a choad to me.

 

[lebron23james]

Also Warriors:
2005 - Ike Diogu
2006 - Patrick O'Bryant
2007 - Mikael Pietrus
2008 - Anthony Randolph

But thank god for 2009.

I am not sure why this kid thinks drafting guarantees anything, it's a very odd argument. It basically is 90% luck, even on the top picks, probably 25% pan out more than a few years

 

[lebron23james]

He joined a 53 win team and now they are on track for.... just under 52 wins. They were a game from the NBA finals last year. Tied for 5th seed this year.

And Lebron's lakers were 21-14 when he plays. And they had a higher seed in the West. Some would say the West is tougher than the east (including Boston who's only 1 game over .500 against the west).

Feel free to discuss with me Boston's record with/without Kyrie and the Lakers record with/without Lebron lately and which is more impressive. I would love that conversation.

Just a second ago you were trying to knock Kyrie for having a bad record on a pre lebron team lol

Now he joins a team which he is leading and the best player on it you are knocking him for that

You are still confusing regular season with how good a player is.

Toronto won 59 games in 2017. The Cavs won 50 games in 2017. Lebron sucks!