Top 32 tournament RF Crawford vs Walker

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Rightfield Bracket is:

1 B Ruth 9
32 J D Drew 0

16 D Winfield 10
17 G Sheffield 3

8 R Jackson 7
25 E Flick 0

9 P Waner 7
24 W Keeler 0

4 F Robinson 7
29 K Cuyler 0

13 D Evans 13
20 I Suzuki 7

5 R Clemente 11
28 B Giles 2

12 T Gwynn 9
21 S Sosa 1

3 M Ott 7
30 R Staub 1

14 R Smith 6
19 V Guerrero 9

6 A Kaline 9
27 S Rice 0

11 H Heilmann 6
22 B Bonds 0

2 H Aaron 9
31 H Stovey 0

15 A Dawson 8
18 B Abreu 6

7 S Crawford 6
26 H Hooper 0

10 L Walker 9
23 E Slaughter 1

1 B Ruth 8
16 D Winfield 2

8 R Jackson 6
9 P Waner 2

4 F Robinson 13
13 D Evans 0

5 R Clemente 13
12 T Gwynn 3

3 M Ott 9
19 V Guerrero 2

6 A Kaline 13
11 H Heilmann 1

2 H Aaron 12
15 A Dawson 0

7 S Crawford
10 L Walker

1 B Ruth
8 R Jackson

4 F Robinson
5 R Clemente

3 M Ott
6 A Kaline

2 H Aaron

 

[obxyankeefan]

Sam Crawford Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Harry Hooper 6-0

Larry Walker Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Enos Slaughter 9-1

 

[calsnowskier]

OPS+ (Crawfor/Walker)
120 - 15/13
130 - 14/10
140 - 11/8
150 - 9/7
160 - 3/3
170 - 0/1

Slight edge to Crawford in consistency, slight edge to Walker in peak. Crawfords edge is slightly bigger than Walkers.

Crawford had an oWAR7 of 42.1 vs 40.3 for Walker.

In another VERY close one, I am going with Crawford.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What throws me off on Walker is his career home/away splits...
BA/OBP/Slg%/OPS/tOPS+
Home-.348/.431/.637/1.068/120
Away- .278/.370/.495/.865/80

and his coors field numbers 2501 PA

.381/ .462/ .710/ 1.172/141


Most players have better home numbers than away numbers, but these are just SO obvious...

Just looked at Crawford's Home/away splits and they are just as bad... So I guess I cant bring up the Colorado factor despite just doing so...

so now to my regular scheduled analysis

Power- Walker wins(very close)

Walker- career OPS+=141, Best=178, 3 seasons of 160 or better, and 8 seasons at average or better
career XBH%= 11.4, Best=14.9, 9 seasons better than average, MLB average=7.6
Crawford- career OPS+=144,best=167, 3 seasons of 160 or better, 10 seasons better than average
career XBH%= 8.2, Best=9.5, 12 seasons better than average, MLB average=4.9

Walks- Walker wins(not close) Crawford was WORSE than league average

SO- Crawford wins(semi close)

BA- Walker wins (very close) Walker won 3 batting titles vs Crawford's 0

baserunning- Crawford wins(Very close)- and incomplete

Defense- Walker wins by dWAR

Career longevity- Crawford wins(2000+ more PA)

Defensive longevity- Crawford wins

Postseason- Walker wins(not a strength from either side)

intangibles- Walker has an MVP, Crawford no MVPs
Crawford is the MLB all time leader for triples

Because the Colorado affect does not apply here since Crawford's home/away splits are just as bad, I have to give the win to Walker since he was the better hitter and apparent fielder as well...

 

[DragonfromTO]

What throws me off on Walker is his career home/away splits...
BA/OBP/Slg%/OPS/tOPS+
Home-.348/.431/.637/1.068/120
Away- .278/.370/.495/.865/80

and his coors field numbers 2501 PA

.381/ .462/ .710/ 1.172/141


Most players have better home numbers than away numbers, but these are just SO obvious...

Just looked at Crawford's Home/away splits and they are just as bad... So I guess I cant bring up the Colorado factor despite just doing so...

so now to my regular scheduled analysis

Power- Walker wins(very close)

Walker- career OPS+=141, Best=178, 3 seasons of 160 or better, and 8 seasons at average or better
career XBH%= 11.4, Best=14.9, 9 seasons better than average, MLB average=7.6
Crawford- career OPS+=144,best=167, 3 seasons of 160 or better, 10 seasons better than average
career XBH%= 8.2, Best=9.5, 12 seasons better than average, MLB average=4.9

Walks- Walker wins(not close) Crawford was WORSE than league average

SO- Crawford wins(semi close)

BA- Walker wins (very close) Walker won 3 batting titles vs Crawford's 0

baserunning- Crawford wins(Very close)- and incomplete

Defense- Walker wins by dWAR

Career longevity- Crawford wins(2000+ more PA)

Defensive longevity- Crawford wins

Postseason- Walker wins(not a strength from either side)

intangibles- Walker has an MVP, Crawford no MVPs
Crawford is the MLB all time leader for triples

Because the Colorado affect does not apply here since Crawford's home/away splits are just as bad, I have to give the win to Walker since he was the better hitter and apparent fielder as well...

Look closer at Crawford's career splits, they are for only 4 seasons worth of data (his last 4 seasons of course). Fewer than 1,000 PAs both at home and away. And I don't think I would say that they are "just as bad" as Walker's anyway.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Look closer at Crawford's career splits, they are for only 4 seasons worth of data (his last 4 seasons of course). Fewer than 1,000 PAs both at home and away. And I don't think I would say that they are "just as bad" as Walker's anyway.

Damn, since the rest of Crawford's career splits are not reachable, I have to stay with my conclusion...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Damn, since the rest of Crawford's career splits are not reachable, I have to stay with my conclusion...

I think I personally wouldn't use less than 20% of the overall data set to draw concrete conclusions about the other 80+ % and would instead leave it as an unknown.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think I personally wouldn't use less than 20% of the overall data set to draw concrete conclusions about the other 80+ % and would instead leave it as an unknown.

But that is basically what I am doing... Since it is unknown about his home/away splits I wont count in the Colorado factor for Walker...

 

[DragonfromTO]

But that is basically what I am doing... Since it is unknown about his home/away splits I wont count in the Colorado factor for Walker...

Walker's splits aren't unknown though! By treating it like a wash you're doing the same thing you would do if you knew that Crawford had the same splits as Walker.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Walker's splits aren't unknown though! By treating it like a wash you're doing the same thing you would do if you knew that Crawford had the same splits as Walker.

An if information is not given, how can you take it into account?? I cant compare something that is known with an uknown... I can only compare a known with a known... I am omitting the information I don't have, so I have to also omit the information that would be in direct comparison...

 

[calsnowskier]

Gotta agree with Dragon here. You KNOW you are counting splits as a negative for Walker, but you are unsure about Crawford. By default, doesnt that make Crawford the winner? Especially since (to my knowledge) there were no parks as drastic as Coors at the turn of the century.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Gotta agree with Dragon here. You KNOW you are counting splits as a negative for Walker, but you are unsure about Crawford. By default, doesnt that make Crawford the winner? Especially since (to my knowledge) there were no parks as drastic as Coors at the turn of the century.

No, it wouldn't it would just change my analysis... But again, i dont think i need too... a 4 year sample size is of course too small, but the window is enough for me to question crawford's career splits... and that is enough that if i am going to ignore the incomplete data i need to ignore the completed data... Either way, i am not sure why you guys are questioning it...

 

[calsnowskier]

No, it wouldn't it would just change my analysis... But again, i dont think i need too... a 4 year sample size is of course too small, but the window is enough for me to question crawford's career splits... and that is enough that if i am going to ignore the incomplete data i need to ignore the completed data... Either way, i am not sure why you guys are questioning it...

???

Isn't the whole point of this to create discussion?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

???

Isn't the whole point of this to create discussion?

yea probably... i will admit, this one was tough, because it is stank+ colorado vs dead ball...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Here's what I get for Walker:

.381/.462/.710 at Coors
.282/.372 /.520 elsewhere

The difference just in Walker's SLG alone is almost 1.5 times the difference in Crawford's entire OPS.