Top 32 tournament LF Delahanty vs Simmons

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Leftfield Bracket is:

1 B Bonds 5
32 L Brock 1

16 Z Wheat 3
17 S Magee 6

8 M Ramirez 11
25 M Minoso 0

9 T Raines 11
24 J Kelley 0

4 R Henderson 14
29 J Rice 0

13 B Williams 5
20 J Medwick 2

5 C Yastrzemski 7
28 B Veach 0

12 G Goslin 8
21 J Cruz 0

3 T Williams 10
30 R White 0

14 J Burkett 3
19 B Johnson 6

6 P Rose 3
27 R Kiner 5

11 F Clarke 6
22 L Gonzalez 4

2 S Musial 10
31 H Manush 0

15 J Jackson 5
18 W Stargell 7

7 E Delahanty 4
26 J Sheckard 1

10 A Simmons 7
23 B Downing 0

1 B Bonds 9
17 S Magee 2

8 M Ramirez 4
9 T Raines 7

4 R Henderson 10
13 B Williams 0

5 C Yastrzemski 13
12 G Goslin 0

3 T Williams 10
19 B Johnson 0

27 R Kiner 8
11 F Clarke 3

2 S Musial 11
18 W Stargell 1

7 E Delahanty
10 Al Simmons

1 B Bonds
9 T Raines

4 R Henderson
5 C Yastrzemski

3 T Williams
27 R Kiner

2 S Musial

 

[obxyankeefan]

Ed Delahanty Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Jimmy Sheckard 4-1

Al Simmons Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Brian Downing 7-0

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I JUST DONT CARE... THIS ONE SUCKS!!!

 

[calsnowskier]

Simmons gets Downing in the first round and a bye in the second round.

Not cool, man. Not cool.

 

[calsnowskier]

At least Stan Musial gets a bye in round 3...

 

[obxyankeefan]

Simmons gets Downing in the first round and a bye in the second round.

Not cool, man. Not cool.

I think you are discounting Delahanty too quickly. I understand your bias towards pre 1900 players, but evan with the quirky scoring they had back than most all of it was the same. IE stolen bases were piled up too quickly, but everyone who played those years benefited from the rule. When looking at that ERA of baseball there are certain things and players that stand out. Ross Barnes, Ed Williamson, Erve Beck, and Hugh Duffy all had tremendous seasons even when compared against their peers. Certain players career numbers stood out above their contemporaries, like Cap anson, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers and Ed Delahanty.

When looking at base numbers Ed Dalahanty batted over .400 three times, but only led the league one of those seasons. So yes the BA were higher in that ERA. He led the league twice in OBP, but he did have a OBP over .400 in 9 of 16 seasons including one at .500. He led the league six times in SP, including two season over .600. He ended his career with a line of .346/.411/.505. That line is .065/.064/.127 above what the league average was during his career. So lets look at some of the more advanced stats that compare a player against his contemporaries. 13 of 16 seasons he had an OBP+ over 100, with the three season below average being in his first four seasons were he had his worst four seasons. Of the 13 seasons that were above average 10 of them were above 150 with 5 being above 170 and leading the league 4 times. He went over Niagara Falls with a career OBP+ of 152.

The following stats are rate stats with Delahanty's first and the league average second. Everyone of these listed on BR has Delahanty above the league average.

HR% 1.2-0.6
SO% 5.2-7.1
BB% 8.8-7.8
XBH% 9.6-5.5
X/H% 31-22
SO/W% .59-.91
AB/SO% 17.1-12.6
AB/HR 74.4-147.4
AB/RBI 5.1-7.8

While Delahanty played in an ERA that was not regulated as closely as today's baseball is, he still excelled so far above his peers that to discredit him for his ERA is not right.

 

[calsnowskier]

While Delahanty played in an ERA that was not regulated as closely as today's baseball is, he still excelled so far above his peers that to discredit him for his ERA is not right.

The barnstorming nature of the game in this time frame makes any and all stats that can be found now totally and completely suspect. I am a database programmer by trade, so I can never get beyond the idea of "garbage in, garbage out".

He may very well have been the greatest left fielder to ever play the game. But the devices used to measure his accomplishments were horribly mis-calibrated, so his data needs to be omitted.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think you are discounting Delahanty too quickly. I understand your bias towards pre 1900 players, but evan with the quirky scoring they had back than most all of it was the same. IE stolen bases were piled up too quickly, but everyone who played those years benefited from the rule. When looking at that ERA of baseball there are certain things and players that stand out. Ross Barnes, Ed Williamson, Erve Beck, and Hugh Duffy all had tremendous seasons even when compared against their peers. Certain players career numbers stood out above their contemporaries, like Cap anson, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers and Ed Delahanty.

When looking at base numbers Ed Dalahanty batted over .400 three times, but only led the league one of those seasons. So yes the BA were higher in that ERA. He led the league twice in OBP, but he did have a OBP over .400 in 9 of 16 seasons including one at .500. He led the league six times in SP, including two season over .600. He ended his career with a line of .346/.411/.505. That line is .065/.064/.127 above what the league average was during his career. So lets look at some of the more advanced stats that compare a player against his contemporaries. 13 of 16 seasons he had an OBP+ over 100, with the three season below average being in his first four seasons were he had his worst four seasons. Of the 13 seasons that were above average 10 of them were above 150 with 5 being above 170 and leading the league 4 times. He went over Niagara Falls with a career OBP+ of 152.

The following stats are rate stats with Delahanty's first and the league average second. Everyone of these listed on BR has Delahanty above the league average.

HR% 1.2-0.6
SO% 5.2-7.1
BB% 8.8-7.8
XBH% 9.6-5.5
X/H% 31-22
SO/W% .59-.91
AB/SO% 17.1-12.6
AB/HR 74.4-147.4
AB/RBI 5.1-7.8

While Delahanty played in an ERA that was not regulated as closely as today's baseball is, he still excelled so far above his peers that to discredit him for his ERA is not right.

I haven't voted on this one, and probably won't vote... I have been using those ratio stats in most of my analysis... But this one is extra tough because we are talking about 2 players so close, but neither of them are in eras i believe were anything special...