Top 32 tournament CF Mays vs Mantle

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Centerfield Bracket is:

1 W Mays 9
32 M Cameron 0

16 J Wynn 8
17 C Lemon 3

8 C Beltran 10
25 E Burks 1

9 D Snider 9
24 F Lynn 0

4 M Mantle 9
29 E Averill 0

13 W Davis 5
20 C Cedeno 4

5 K Griffey JR 13
28 B Williams 0

12 A Jones 9
21 J O' Rourke 0

3 T Speaker 6
30 D White 0

14 J Edmonds 12
19 V Pinson 1

6 J DiMaggio 4
27 B Butler 0

11 B Hamilton 2
22 K Puckett 7

2 T Cobb 9
31 T Leach 0

15 J Damon 7
18 M Carey 6

7 K Lofton 12
26 L Doby 3

10 R Ashhburn 6
23 T Hunter 1

1 W Mays 8
16 J Wynn 0

8 C Beltran 0
9 D Snider 9

4 M Mantle 11
13 W Davis 0

5 K Griffey JR 11
12 A Jones 0

3 T Speaker 10
14 J Edmonds 0

6 J DiMaggio 12
22 K Puckett 1

2 T Cobb 12
15 J Damon 0

7 K Lofton 7
10 R Ashburn 3

1 W Mays 5
9 D Snider 0

4 M Mantle 11
5 K Griffey JR 1

3 T Speaker 10
6 J dimaggio 3

2 T Cobb 7
7 K Lofton 1

1 W Mays
4 M Mantle

3 T Speaker
2 T Cobb

 

[obxyankeefan]

Willie Mays Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Mike Cameron, Jimmy Wynn, and Duke Snider 22-0

Mickey Mantle Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Earl Averill, Willie Davis, and Ken Griffey JR 33-1

 

[obxyankeefan]

I went into this one thinking I was going to vote for Mays because he did it longer. I was surprised how close these two actually were.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Look at their 162 game averages. WOW, that's close

 

[MilkSpiller22]

This one is EXTREMELY close... surprised by how close...

Power- Mays wins(close)
XBH%
Mays-Career=10.6, Best=13.6, # of 499+PA seasons=12, MLB average=6.3(4.3)
Mantle-Career=9.6, Best=12.1, # 499+PA seasons=8, MLB average=6.4(3.2)

BA- Mantle wins(very close)
Mays-Career=.302, Best=.347, # of 499+PA seasons better=10, MLB average=.264(.038)
Mantle-Career=.298, Best=.365, # of 499+ PA season better=9, MLB average=.256(.042)

BB-Mantle wins(NOT CLOSE)
BB%
Mays-Career=11.7, Best=20.9, # of 499+PA seasons=7, MLB average=8.7(4)
Mantle-Career=17.5, Best=24.3, # of 499+PA seasons=8, MLB average=8.6(8.9)

SO- Mays wins(NOT CLOSE)- Mantle was worse considerably worse than MLB AVERAGE while mays was better...

Defense- Mays wins(NOT CLOSE)- Mays is arguably the best defensive CF of all time, mantle was below average for most of his career...

speed-Mays wins(NOT CLOSE) But Mays is over-rated here...

Post season- Mantle wins(NOT CLOSE)

Career longevity- Mays wins(nearly 3000 more PA)
positional longevity-Mays wins(over a 1000 more games)
499+PA seasons- Mays=18, Mantle=14

It looks like Mantle was the better offensive player while Mays was better defensively...

Because of longevity, and Defense at a premium position, I think I must give this to Mays... Especially since both players were seen to be power hitters and Mays was a better power hitter than Mantle...

In a tight race Mays wins... But this was MUCH closer than I expected...

 

[calsnowskier]

OPS+ (Mays/Mantle)
120 - 20/15
130 - 17/15
140 - 16/14
150 - 13/13
160 - 10/11
170 - 6/9
180 - 1/7
190 - 0/5
200 - 0/3 (206, 210, 221)

WOW! I WANT to pick Mays, but I can't justify it. Mantle takes this analysis.

Defense
Not really close. Mays has the rep as one of the elite defense CFers ever, and his dWAR backs that up. He pretty much lived in the mid-to-high 1's. I am not familiar with Mantles rep as a fielder, but his dWAR does not paint a pretty picture.

Accolades
Mays - 2 MVP, 12 top 10 MVP, 20 ASG, 12 GG
Mantle - 3 MVP, 9 top 10 MVP, 14 ASG, 1 GG

Speed
Mays had 5 seasons of 20/75%, but he maxed out at 40 SB, so he was not an all-time base-stealer by any means. Mantle only had 1 20/75% season. Speed just was not a part of his game.

oWAR7
Mays - 61.9
Mantle - 64.8

Summary
Both have SUPER-elite bats, but Mantle clearly had the better bat. Neither were elite on the base-paths, but Mays did use it as a weapon. Both were VERY well decorated. Mays was elite defensively while Mantle was a detriment.

Ultimately, I think I have to go with Mays here. The defensive difference at an up-the-middle position is bigger than any of the offensive difference between the two. But there may be some homerism playing here as well.

Mays wins a VERY close one.

 

[Cedrique]

I still can't decide on this one. I didn't realize Mantle was so bad defensively. Maybe if he and Whitey and Billy had curtailed the drinking a little he would have run some better routes on those fly balls....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I still can't decide on this one. I didn't realize Mantle was so bad defensively. Maybe if he and Whitey and Billy had curtailed the drinking a little he would have run some better routes on those fly balls....

I don't know if he was actually bad defensively... really nobody would ever play CF if he was bad, if he was bad he would be playing LF or RF... He was just below average for his position, the position played by the best or second best athlete on the field...

 

[Cedrique]

I don't know if he was actually bad defensively... really nobody would ever play CF if he was bad, if he was bad he would be playing LF or RF... He was just below average for his position, the position played by the best or second best athlete on the field...

Yeah, no doubt he was a great athlete. I'm just saying that according to the dWAR stats he has low ratings relative to other CFers I have seen, and lower than I would have thought.

 

[Clayton]

Mays was just the more complete player. If we were talking about a first basemen or something, Mantle would have a shot at this but we are talking about CF.

 

[mike hunt]

Mays by a hair.
Willie's offense suffered playing in Candlestick the majority of his career..