Top 32 tournament C Rodriguez vs Piazza

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Catcher Bracket is:

1 J Bench 13
32 R Ferrell 1

16 T Munson 6
17 W Schang 0

8 B Dickey 3 Dickey will advance on higher seed
25 R Campanella 3

9 G Harnett 6
24 L Parrish 0

4 C Fisk 10
29 J Clements 0

13 G Tenace 1
20 J Kendall 7

5 Y Berra 7
28 R Martin 0

12 B Ewing 2 advances on seed
21 R Bresnahan 2

3 I Rodriguez 8
30 D McGuire 0

14 J Mauer 8
19 J Posada 9

6 M Piazza 11
27 V Martinez 0

11 T Simmons 11
22 D Porter 0

2 G Carter 11
31 S Lollar 0

15 E Lombardi 7
18 B Freehan 4

7 J Torre 6
26 S Burgess 2

10 M Cochrane 4
23 J Sundberg 1

1 J Bench 11
16 T Munson 0

8 B Dickey 5
9 G Harnett 2

4 C Fisk 12
20 J Kendall 0

5 Y Berra 7
12 B Ewing 0

3 I Rodriguez 8
19 J Posada 1

6 M Piazza 10
11 T Simmons 2

2 G Carter 10
15 E Lombardi 1

7 J Torre 0
10 M Cochrane 10

1 J Bench 9
8 B Dickey 0

4 C Fisk 3
5 Y Berra 10

3 I Rodriguez
6 M Piazza

2 G Carter
10 M Cochrane

1 J Bench
5 Y Berra

 

[obxyankeefan]

Ivan Rodriguez Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Deacon McGuire and Jorge Posada 16-1

Mike Piazza Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Victor Martinez and Ted Simmons 21-2

 

[obxyankeefan]

Interesting one here.

Piazza was slighty better offensively, but the D is not even close. And I believe we have all stated that the D is to important at catcher.

I am going with Pudge here.

 

[calsnowskier]

I am not sure where I will vote for this one. The offense is not close (not sure what stats you are looking at, Obx), but neither is the defense. I will try to get some time at work to do my breakdown. If Piazza is not as dominant as he looks at quick glance, I think I will have to go with Pudge. If he is dominant, than I have no effing clue.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

This is a painful one... Really because everything is obvious, its arguably the best defensive catcher vs arguably the best offensive catcher... Also, there careers were during the same period... In fact all of Piazza's 16 seasons Pudge played in... So the comparisons are even more evident...

I don't see the offensive numbers being close, as Piazza had an OPS over 1.00 3 times compared to pudge having a OPS over .900 twice. Pudge only had one season of 50+ BBs and only 3 seasons of 25 or more HRs, compared to Piazza having 8 seasons of 50+ walks and 9 seasons of 25+ HRs...

The only offensive numbers that are close is BA but even that Piazza has 9 seasons 300 or higher, and 4 seasons higher than 325 compared to Pudge having 10 seasons 300 or above, and 3 seasons above .325. But Piazza also Owns the highest BA seasons(.362 vs .347) of the 2 and the higher Career BA(.308, vs 296)...

As for defense, Piazza only had one season over 1 dWAR, compared to 14 by pudge... Piazza had 10 seasons of higher than 0, compared to pudge having 19... Pudge had 4 seasons over 2.0 compared to piazza's 0, and had one season above 3.

So I don't consider either close... I do think pudge was the better offensive player than Piazza defensive... But I am unsure how much weight I can give defense, even in THE defensive PREMIUM position...

Havent made my conclusion yet... all I know is this is by far the hardest one yet...

 

[calsnowskier]

OPS+ (Piazza/Rodriguez)
120 - 12/7
130 - 10/2
140 - 8/1
150 - 6/1
160 - 3/0
170 - 2/0
180 - 1/0

Not close. Piazza was not an all-time bat when compared to 1B or OFers, but he was likely THE elite bat for catchers.

But Pudge was THE elite defensive catcher of all time, MAYBE with the exception of Bench.

I guess I begrudgingly vote for Pudge here, because catcher is a defense-first position, and Pudge still brought a decent bat, even if it wasnt elite by any matrix.

I absolutely cannot fault anyone for going either way on this one. Both SHOULD be HOFers.

 

[Howie115]

I begrudgingly vote for Pudge here, because catcher is a defense-first position, and Pudge still brought a decent bat, even if it wasnt elite by any matrix.

My sentiment exactly. Pudge was so far superior on defense at a position where it is crucial, I have to go with him. If his bat was average, no, but he was certainly a plus bat for a catcher.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Pudge all day. In his prime, there was NO running game. Had he played with dominant pitchers, scoring would have been nearly impossible