Top 32 tournament 2B Collins vs Sandberg

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

2Basemen Bracket is:

1 R Hornsby 6
32 J Franco 0

16 J Gordon 1
17 J Kent 4

8 B Grich 7
25 J Evers 0

9 F Frisch 5
24 N Fox 2

4 J Morgan 12
29 D Pedroia 3

13 C Biggio 8
20 R Cano 3

5 R Carew 9
28 L Doyle 0

12 W Randolph 5
21 B Doerr 4

3 N Lajoie 12
30 C Knoblauch 0

14 J Robinson 16
19 B McPhee 1

6 C Gehringer 11
27 D Pratt 0

11 R Alomar 13
22 T Phillips 0

2 E Collins 6
31 C Childs 1

15 C Utley 8
18 B Herman 4

7 L Whitaker 8
26 B Myers 1

10 R Sandberg 13
23 T Lazzeri 2

1 R Hornsby 14
17 J Kent 0

8 B Grich 6
9 F Frisch 0

4 J Morgan 8
13 C Biggio 3

5 R Carew 10
12 W Randolph 1

3 N Lajoie 12
14 J Robinson 1

6 C Gehringer 9
11 R Alomar 3

2 E Collins13
15 C Utley 2

7 L Whitaker 5
10 R Sandberg 7

1 R Hornsby 10
8 B Grich 0

4 J Morgan 9
5 R Carew 2

3 N Lajoie 7
6 C Gehringer 4

2 E Collins
10 R Sandberg

1 R Hornsby
4 J MOrgan

3 N LaJoie

 

[obxyankeefan]

Eddie Collins Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Cupid Childs and Chase Utley 19-3

Ryne Sandberg Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Tony Lazzeri and Lou Whitaker 20-7

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I have always thought very highly of eddie Collins... But studying his numbers is making me want to put him in my over-rated list... His game was getting on base... and that's pretty much all... It looks like he stole a lot of bases BUT he was thrown out 195 times and that is only half his seasons of stats... that tells me he was not even a 75% SB guy in his career, which is not very great...

His BA was amazing, but the MLB average in his time was .273...that is extremely high for an MLB average...

so really the ONLY thing special looks like his walk rate and his SO rate... Both were nearly 5 points better than league average.

But with that said, even though through studying I lowered my ranking of Collins, he was still better than Sandberg...

 

[DragonfromTO]

I have always thought very highly of eddie Collins... But studying his numbers is making me want to put him in my over-rated list... His game was getting on base... and that's pretty much all... It looks like he stole a lot of bases BUT he was thrown out 195 times and that is only half his seasons of stats... that tells me he was not even a 75% SB guy in his career, which is not very great...

His BA was amazing, but the MLB average in his time was .273...that is extremely high for an MLB average...

so really the ONLY thing special looks like his walk rate and his SO rate... Both were nearly 5 points better than league average.

But with that said, even though through studying I lowered my ranking of Collins, he was still better than Sandberg...

I think a .333 career BA is "special" even with a league average of .273.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think a .333 career BA is "special" even with a league average of .273.

It is, but definitely takes away from it when the MLB average is one of the 30th highest league BA ever in baseball...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

he was top 10 in BA 10 times... never lead, and was second only once, and top 5 five times..

 

[MilkSpiller22]

too bad Next Joe Morgan faces Hornsby... Would have loved to see Morgan vs Collins... And I am 90% sure that I would pick Morgan... But would have been fun to see the 2 best speed/OBP 2B of all time...

 

[DragonfromTO]

he was top 10 in BA 10 times... never lead, and was second only once, and top 5 five times..

Overlapping almost perfectly with Ty Cobb will tend to do that to even the best of us though . He's got three direct contemporaries (all of whom also spent their entire careers in the AL with him) in the top 10 in career BA. That's an awfully tough row to hoe.

Collins has the same 60 point differential as Wade Boggs

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Overlapping almost perfectly with Ty Cobb will tend to do that to even the best of us though . He's got three direct contemporaries (all of whom also spent their entire careers in the AL with him) in the top 10 in career BA. That's an awfully tough row to hoe.

Collins has the same 60 point differential as Wade Boggs

But Boggs lead BA 5 times... Not sure about you, but I would rather have the BEST of the times instead of great for the times...

 

[DragonfromTO]

But Boggs lead BA 5 times... Not sure about you, but I would rather have the BEST of the times instead of great for the times...

Do you think he would have led if he'd had the guys in his league that Collins did though? Guys like Kirby Puckett and George Brett were excellent hitters for average but they weren't on the level of Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker in that regard, and Gwynn was in the other league.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Do you think he would have led if he'd had the guys in his league that Collins did though? Guys like Kirby Puckett and George Brett were excellent hitters for average but they weren't on the level of Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker in that regard, and Gwynn was in the other league.

fine, but shouldn't a great BA hitter be top 5 more than 5 times in his career??? Boggs WON the batting title 5 times...

 

[DragonfromTO]

fine, but shouldn't a great BA hitter be top 5 more than 5 times in his career??? Boggs WON the batting title 5 times...

I'm not really arguing that Collins was as good a hitter (for average) as Boggs though, I'm merely arguing that there isn't enough of a gap between them for one to be considered one of the very best of all time at hitting for average and the other to be nothing special.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm not really arguing that Collins was as good a hitter (for average) as Boggs though, I'm merely arguing that there isn't enough of a gap between them for one to be considered one of the very best of all time at hitting for average and the other to be nothing special.

I did give him credit for his BA though, just did not give him as much credit as i thought i would... Also, i did pick Collins to win here, i just lowered him on my overall list...

 

[wood20ks]

I voted Collins..... As much as a Cub fan and Ryno fan that there is,I think Collins went up against better competition.

16 teams back then compared to 26 when Ryno played....