POLL Top 10 poll: #25 player in history - Runoff 2

[Wamu]

Wamu, you know I think you're a good dude, but your takes are sometimes really dumb. The person you are vomiting this crap at has never denied Bonds used steroids.

You know I always appreciate what you have to say. And let me say...

 

[msgkings322]

Hey is Mickey Mantle somewhere on this list? That guy used to beat up on baseballs like they were a rented mule.

Give that dude a break, he's literally a stroke victim lol

 

[Wamu]

There are no rumors that Bonds ever even used post-2005.

I never once claimed Bonds was “clean” pre-‘05. Please provide a link of my stating otherwise.

I’ll wait…

Oh my bad. I obviously mixed you up with a different Giants fan. Again my bad, I was outta line.

 

[calsnowskier]

Oh my bad. I obviously mixed you up with a different Giants fan. Again my bad, I was outta line.

For the record, I have yet to find a single Giants fan who claims Bonds was “clean”. At least one who didn’t make the claim as a troll.

 

[calsnowskier]

And fuck you all very much for trying to force me to cast the deciding vote here.

 

[msgkings322]

Oh my bad. I obviously mixed you up with a different Giants fan. Again my bad, I was outta line.

Now this here is a great post. So many have trouble admitting error.

 

[Wamu]

Now this here is a great post. So many have trouble admitting error. <--

That is very true.

And I have never understood why anyone would wanna double-down on being wrong.

To me it's better to admit error that push something that's incorrect.

 

[msgkings322]

That is very true.

And I have never understood why anyone would wanna double-down on being wrong.

To me it's better to admit error that push something that's incorrect.

It's insecure people who can't do it. Confident ones have no problem admitting they got something wrong.

 

[LHG]

And that's your journey. I do have an opinion about whether Hurt used or not: he didn't.

For me, I'm skeptical of any player being clean from that time period. Not saying all used or that anyone in particular is a user but Rafael Palmeiro tells me that being adament on being clean isn't a slam dunk on that being the case. And body shape goes out the window when I think of players like David Ortiz, Andy Pettitte and Shane Monahan. Usage doesn't mean the player suddenly looks very different.
Did Griffey and Thomas used? I don't know. I certainly hope not. I loved both players when they were playing. But I'm not going to assume that they were clean or that they were dirty. The era is very muddled and usage was all over the place. I won't demonize or issue sainthood for anyone from the 1980s to early 2000s.

 

[LHG]

And fuck you all very much for trying to force me to cast the deciding vote here.

Well, we have another 10 votes to evenly split between the two before you have to vote.

 

[Wamu]

It's insecure people who can't do it. Confident ones have no problem admitting they got something wrong.

That's a great way to put it.

 

[msgkings322]

For me, I'm skeptical of any player being clean from that time period. Not saying all used or that anyone in particular is a user but Rafael Palmeiro tells me that being adament on being clean isn't a slam dunk on that being the case. And body shape goes out the window when I think of players like David Ortiz, Andy Pettitte and Shane Monahan. Usage doesn't mean the player suddenly looks very different.
Did Griffey and Thomas used? I don't know. I certainly hope not. I loved both players when they were playing. But I'm not going to assume that they were clean or that they were dirty. The era is very muddled and usage was all over the place. I won't demonize or issue sainthood for anyone from the 1980s to early 2000s.

All fair points. And yet my opinion remains: he didn't

 

[calsnowskier]

All fair points. And yet my opinion remains: he didn't

All there is in these cases is opinion. Even B&C using is an opinion. They never got tested in public, well organized, well defined manners. It isn’t until ‘05 where opinion is finally removed from the debate.

 

[Cedrique]

Give that dude a break, he's literally a stroke victim lol

Well, now you made that weird. I think it's pretty obvious I was just being folksy.

 

[eaglesnut]

10 gold gloves to only 2
Griffey wins again

 

[eaglesnut]

More Griffey

Extra base hit every 9.48 plate appearances is better than 9.57 for Arod

 

[eaglesnut]

For me, I'm skeptical of any player being clean from that time period. Not saying all used or that anyone in particular is a user but Rafael Palmeiro tells me that being adament on being clean isn't a slam dunk on that being the case. And body shape goes out the window when I think of players like David Ortiz, Andy Pettitte and Shane Monahan. Usage doesn't mean the player suddenly looks very different.
Did Griffey and Thomas used? I don't know. I certainly hope not. I loved both players when they were playing. But I'm not going to assume that they were clean or that they were dirty. The era is very muddled and usage was all over the place. I won't demonize or issue sainthood for anyone from the 1980s to early 2000s.

Big difference between using steroids and using steroids to recover from injury. At least to me.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

All there is in these cases is opinion. Even B&C using is an opinion. They never got tested in public, well organized, well defined manners. It isn’t until ‘05 where opinion is finally removed from the debate.

Didn’t bonds admit to take Unknowingly?

And Petite said Clemens took.
So there is evidence on both using.

Just neither failed a test.