POLL Top 10 poll: #25 player in history - Runoff 2

[calsnowskier]

It never came out like it clearly has come out about Rodriguez. Never heard about jr

The press to busy slobbering Griffey’s knob to do the digging or write the stories. Meanwhile they WANTED to find shit on Bonds, Clemens and ARod.

Maybe he didn’t use. But he played right through the PED era and put up INSANE numbers. I assume he was just as dirty as the guy next to him.

 

[calsnowskier]

This display of flexibility in your stance on ARod is very admirable. So many posters here (mainly the PF) find it impossible to adjust their takes no matter what happens LOL

I still am not giving him my vote. I just acknowledge nothing is black and white.

 

[msgkings322]

I still am not giving him my vote. I just acknowledge nothing is black and white.

Totally get that, I wouldn't expect you to change your vote with him, it's just refreshing to see someone say "OK maybe there's a more fair way to look at this"

 

[dudley laywicker]

This display of flexibility in your stance on ARod is very admirable. So many posters here (mainly the PF) find it impossible to adjust their takes no matter what happens LOL

was hank aaron in yall,s top 10.he could knock the holy hell out the ball too.if willie had not been in the us military,he,d have had a shot at the hr title before aaron.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

this is the closest arod has gotten.

You really have to answer to yourself what you think about the steroid era.

Is it the steroids you don’t want to vote for

Or is it the fact that he failed tests after the league finally enforced the rules

Remember that we have already let in steroid users. So that precedence is already set

But he will be the first player who we rank that actually was punished for using.(whether you want to define the difference as cheating or not)

I am personally someone who does not punish a player for steroid use. But that’s just me.

 

[msgkings322]

The press to busy slobbering Griffey’s knob to do the digging or write the stories. Meanwhile they WANTED to find shit on Bonds, Clemens and ARod.

Maybe he didn’t use. But he played right through the PED era and put up INSANE numbers. I assume he was just as dirty as the guy next to him.

I've heard this take before and some validity to it ('anyone who played then probably used')...I do make exceptions for people who were vocally and openly calling for testing and calling out their peers like Frank Thomas (more evidence he didn't use during his baseball career: he was built like a truck his whole life, played football at Auburn, etc)

 

[dudley laywicker]

The press to busy slobbering Griffey’s knob to do the digging or write the stories. Meanwhile they WANTED to find shit on Bonds, Clemens and ARod.

Maybe he didn’t use. But he played right through the PED era and put up INSANE numbers. I assume he was just as dirty as the guy next to him.

i have read in books and sports sites,a longtime hatred of the yanks for not letting him come into the bench area fueled griffey.

 

[calsnowskier]

this is the closest arod has gotten.

You really have to answer to yourself what you think about the steroid era.

Is it the steroids you don’t want to vote for

Or is it the fact that he failed tests after the league finally enforced the rules

Remember that we have already let in steroid users. So that precedence is already set

But he will be the first player who we rank that actually was punished for using.(whether you want to define the difference as cheating or not)

I am personally someone who does not punish a player for steroid use. But that’s just me.

I don’t punish anyone for “using steroids”.

I punish people for playing a different game than is agreed upon on the field. I have removed 4 players from my eligibility for this project because they weren’t playing what the league defined as baseball (ARod, Tatis, Palmeiro, Cano). Scherzer, Sosa and Neikro are all on the border of joining this list, but the rules they broke were not the absolute focus of the entire sports world at the time they broke their rules. But I acknowledge there is a legit break in logic in how I treat these two groups of players.

The pre-2005 PED users didn’t do anything wrong. They were playing the game as it was defined.

 

[calsnowskier]

I've heard this take before and some validity to it ('anyone who played then probably used')...I do make exceptions for people who were vocally and openly calling for testing and calling out their peers like Frank Thomas (more evidence he didn't use during his baseball career: he was built like a truck his whole life, played football at Auburn, etc)

And Rafael Palmeiro.

 

[Wamu]

I just did some research on his test history. There are RUMORS that he failed a test in ‘06, but the rules stated that a player needed to fail twice for it to count as a positive test. He didn’t “legally” test positive until ‘13.

Going by that, and only whipping his numbers from ‘13 forward, it hardly makes a dent in his numbers. Really, all he loses is 1 down-ballot MVP vote.

Oh just rumors? Alrighty then. Kinda odd coming from a Bonds fan.

I've had conversations with you before about him. And you didn't have anything close to a rational reason as to way BB's personal trainer went to jail for him. I still say that was odd for Anderson to refuse to testify against his client. Wonder how much Bonds paid him to keep quiet?

 

[msgkings322]

was hank aaron in yall,s top 10.he could knock the holy hell out the ball too.if willie had not been in the us military,he,d have had a shot at the hr title before aaron.

He's #5

1) Babe Ruth (defeated Willie Mays 23-9)
2) Willie Mays (defeated Barry Bonds 26-11)
3) Ted Williams (defeated Barry Bonds 18-17)
4) Barry Bonds (defeated Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb 20-11-8)
5) Hank Aaron (defeated Ty Cobb 17-16)
6) Ty Cobb (defeated Lou Gehrig 24-9)
7) Lou Gehrig (defeated Walter Johnson 19-10)
8) Mickey Mantle (defeated Walter Johnson 17-12)
9) Walter Johnson (defeated Stan Musial and Rogers Hornsby 18-7-3)
10) Stan Musial (defeated Rogers Hornsby 15-10)
11) Rogers Hornsby (defeated H. Wagner, R. Henderson, M. Schmidt and R. Clemens 15-4-3-2-1)
12) Honus Wagner (defeated Roger Clemens 19-8)
13) Mike Schmidt (defeated Roger Clemens 16-12)
14) Rickey Henderson (defeated Roger Clemens 17-13)
15) Roger Clemens (defeated Ken Griffey Jr 16-14)
16) Randy Johnson (defeated Tris Speaker 16-11)
17) Tris Speaker (defeated Greg Maddux 18-12)
18) Greg Maddux (defeated Albert Pujols 17-9)
19) Joe DiMaggio (defeated Albert Pujols 17-13)
20) Albert Pujols (defeated Pedro Martinez 16-14)
21) Pedro Martinez (defeated Jimmie Foxx 20-10)
22) Jimmie Foxx (defeated Cy Young, Lefty Grove and Christy Mathewson 16-12-2-1)
23) Cy Young (defeated Lefty Grove 17-13)
24) Lefty Grove (defeated Ken Griffey Jr 21-9)

Who is the #25 player ever? This poll will close Friday AM.

VOTE FOR 3!!

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[Cedrique]

I just did some research on his test history. There are RUMORS that he failed a test in ‘06, but the rules stated that a player needed to fail twice for it to count as a positive test. He didn’t “legally” test positive until ‘13.

Going by that, and only whipping his numbers from ‘13 forward, it hardly makes a dent in his numbers. Really, all he loses is 1 down-ballot MVP vote.

That's another gray area though. He kind of Pete Rose'd his way through what he disclosed. His first admission was that he did steroids from 2001-03 with the Rangers and he didn't with the Yankees. But later he admitted to doing it with the Yankees. (but I don't know which years). So it's hard to know what to do with that information. If you count his stats at face value up until '13 he is on par with Mike Schmidt, who was taken much earlier.

 

[msgkings322]

Oh just rumors? Alrighty then. Kinda odd coming from a Bonds fan.

I've had conversations with you before about him. And you didn't have anything close to a rational reason as to way BB's personal trainer went to jail for him. I still say that was odd for Anderson to refuse to testify against his client. Wonder how much Bonds paid him to keep quiet?

Wamu, you know I think you're a good dude, but your takes are sometimes really dumb. The person you are vomiting this crap at has never denied Bonds used steroids.

 

[calsnowskier]

Oh just rumors? Alrighty then. Kinda odd coming from a Bonds fan.

I've had conversations with you before about him. And you didn't have anything close to a rational reason as to way BB's personal trainer went to jail for him. I still say that was odd for Anderson to refuse to testify against his client. Wonder how much Bonds paid him to keep quiet?

There are no rumors that Bonds ever even used post-2005.

I never once claimed Bonds was “clean” pre-‘05. Please provide a link of my stating otherwise.

I’ll wait…

 

[msgkings322]

And Rafael Palmeiro.

A failed test would invalidate my feelings about Thomas

 

[calsnowskier]

That's another gray area though. He kind of Pete Rose'd his way through what he disclosed. His first admission was that he did steroids from 2001-03 with the Rangers and he didn't with the Yankees. But later he admitted to doing it with the Yankees. (but I don't know which years). So it's hard to know what to do with that information. If you count his stats at face value up until '13 he is on par with Mike Schmidt, who was taken much earlier.

What we BELIEVE and what we KNOW are two TOTALLY different things.

 

[Cedrique]

Hey is Mickey Mantle somewhere on this list? That guy used to beat up on baseballs like they were a rented mule.

 

[calsnowskier]

A failed test would invalidate my feelings about Thomas

I wasn’t saying anything about Thomas (or Griffey, technically). I am just saying that using the fact that someone was vocal about their cleanliness and about supporting testing is FAR from them actually being clean.

I don’t actually have an opinion on whether Hurt used or not. Nor Griffey. I tend to think they were both likely clean. But I don’t know that in any way whatsoever. I am just using the very cultivated image that I have been fed by themselves and by the media about them. I have been fooled by the media WAY too much to believe a single lying word out of any of their lying mouth’s.

 

[Cedrique]

What we BELIEVE and what we KNOW are two TOTALLY different things.

I think I saw that t-shirt on one of those annoying TEMU ads

 

[msgkings322]

I wasn’t saying anything about Thomas (or Griffey, technically). I am just saying that using the fact that someone was vocal about their cleanliness and about supporting testing is FAR from them actually being clean.

I don’t actually have an opinion on whether Hurt used or not. Nor Griffey. I tend to think they were both likely clean. But I don’t know that in any way whatsoever. I am just using the very cultivated image that I have been fed by themselves and by the media about them. I have been fooled by the media WAY too much to believe a single lying word out of any of their lying mouth’s.

And that's your journey. I do have an opinion about whether Hurt used or not: he didn't.