POLL Top 10 poll #21: #21 player in history - Runoff 3

[calsnowskier]

Runoff for the #21 player in baseball history. Poll closes Wednesday AM.

Spoiler: Tags

@navamind @LHG
@steveringo @broncosmitty @packerzrule
@jarntt @redseat
@black francis @molsaniceman @Fountain City Blues
@Used 2 B Hu @MilkSpiller22 @chappee11
@CitySushi @Clayton @UK Cowboy
@Beengay fudgepackers @Hbomb @Maximus Rex
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@Maverick426h @TheGoodMan19 @Bodega
@blstoker @Diamondeye @trojanfan12
@mr.hockey4242 @Janus @VikingFan2k2
@Stakesarehigh @eaglesnut @boogiewithstu2007
@SF11704 @Hunter Montana

 

[eaglesnut]

No one is the best player in their sport for their entire career, but Pedro's best was some of the peakest pitching of all time.

 

[calsnowskier]

Annoying way of getting here, but I think we got the proper final 2 at the end (MAYBE Lefty over Pedro, but they are super-similar)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Annoying way of getting here, but I think we got the proper final 2 at the end (MAYBE Lefty over Pedro, but they are super-similar)

lefty vs pedro is preference... i prefer Lefty... but i can see the argument for pedro... i can see the argument for pedro to be better than Maddux and Randy Johnson as well...

Foxx is the clear next position player(with the AROD stigma)... so whoever wins here deserves the spot..

but who to decide between these two?? i think id go pedro.. but i would change my mind any time i was asked...

 

[calsnowskier]

lefty vs pedro is preference... i prefer Lefty... but i can see the argument for pedro... i can see the argument for pedro to be better than Maddux and Randy Johnson as well...

Foxx is the clear next position player(with the AROD stigma)... so whoever wins here deserves the spot..

but who to decide between these two?? i think id go pedro.. but i would change my mind any time i was asked...

Yup.

Pedro and Lefty are the same player the same way Foxx and Pujols are the same player. Any ranking order between the 4 of them is fully defendable and could likely change on a daily basis.

 

[calsnowskier]

I fully expect the loser of this one to face off against Lefty for 22.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yup.

Pedro and Lefty are the same player the same way Foxx and Pujols are the same player. Any ranking order between the 4 of them is fully defendable and could likely change on a daily basis.

i dont think pedro and Lefty are the same player though...

Foxx and pujols are closer to eachother than lefty and pedro...

 

[calsnowskier]

i dont think pedro and Lefty are the same player though...

Foxx and pujols are closer to eachother than lefty and pedro...

For the era, Lefty was a glorified swing man (IP-wise). I think they are very similar.

 

[chappee11]

 

[calsnowskier]

View attachment 390717

From the guy who hasn’t participated and has only posted derisive posts in this project from the start.

 

[LHG]

View attachment 390717

How so?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

How so?

i do think having multiple runoffs are quite annoying to many voters... but within the process we are using, i dont see how to prevent them...

maybe its that... because even though we have scares sometimes that a non deserving player will win a vote, we really havent been affected too much by it... Joe D was the biggest "issue" weve had but he has so much extra curricular, that we knew he would be picked earlier than he should...

 

[calsnowskier]

i do think having multiple runoffs are quite annoying to many voters... but within the process we are using, i dont see how to prevent them...

maybe its that... because even though we have scares sometimes that a non deserving player will win a vote, we really havent been affected too much by it... Joe D was the biggest "issue" weve had but he has so much extra curricular, that we knew he would be picked earlier than he should...

As much as I “complained” about Aaron or Mantle or DiMaggio, none of them were outrageous. They were all legit all-time greats who were legit in the discussion for the spots they ended up taking.

There is one player in the discussion now who is probably 10 spots too early, but he hasn’t taken a spot yet, so who cares?

 

[Clayton]

i dont think pedro and Lefty are the same player though...

Foxx and pujols are closer to eachother than lefty and pedro...

Leftys era in general doesnt translate the same.

Just glancing at Pedros Biography but he seems to be under the 'establish dominance, use that fear to keep hitters off balance, strike them out' philosophy. Leftys era really seems more pitch-to-contact.

 

[calsnowskier]

Leftys era in general doesnt translate the same.

Just glancing at Pedros Biography but he seems to be under the 'establish dominance, use that fear to keep hitters off balance, strike them out' philosophy. Leftys era really seems more pitch-to-contact.

The old days were not about sacrificing the arm for results the way pitching became in the 60s?/70s?. FBs were probably sitting at 87/88 and maxing at 95ish. Today they sit at 93 and max at 104. And breaking pitches turn on a dime.

That kind of action destroys shoulders and elbows. Pitchers can’t throw more than 200 IP for long because of that (gotten worse in the last few years as the game has adjusted to be more bullpen-centric).

Could Pedro pitch in Lefty’s era? Could Lefty pitch in Pedro’s era? Who knows. The games were quite different. What we KNOW is that both pitched in the eras in which they pitched, and they excelled. And they both put up similar careers (adjusted for their eras, of course).

In my eyes, they are almost identical. In a head-to-head vote, I would probably vote Lefty. But I wouldn’t even defend that stance with a thumb war, let alone die on that hill.

 

[Clayton]

And they both put up similar careers (adjusted for their eras, of course)
st identical. In a head-to-head vote, I would probably vote Lefty. But I wouldn’t even defend that stance with a thumb war, let alone die on that hill.

ERA+ numbers arent really all that similar imo

 

[calsnowskier]

ERA+ numbers arent really all that similar imo

I don’t really look at ERA/ERA+. Not for any real reason that I can defend, I just think it isn’t THAT important in the grand scheme of things. IMHO, the only job for a pitcher is to record outs. The more effective they are in everything else will result in more outs getting recorded. Sometimes, giving up runs is totally acceptable.

Not to say that IP is the only stat I look at, but it is important. Probably the most underrated pitching stat there is.

I mentioned this a few threads back, but I think it is very important…

IP >>>>>> PA

I could, conceivably have a PA with absolutely zero skills. There is almost no chance in hell I could ever record an out as a pitcher. .1 IP requires skill while 1 PA just requires showing up.

 

[calsnowskier]

Wow

I thought there was a strong possibility that Pedro was going to win, but this is not at all what I was expecting…

 

[chappee11]

How so?

I just think this entire exercise has run its course. Don’t get me wrong…it was cool/interesting for much of this run. It just kind of ran out of steam after about #15, or so.

The people that joked that we would eventually argue Kent Hrbek v. Jim Gantner might yet be vindicated, however.

 

[Clayton]

Wow

I thought there was a strong possibility that Pedro was going to win, but this is not at all what I was expecting…

Pedro is commonly high on all time lists. He is #11 on ESPNs list, for example