POLL Top 10 poll #19: #19 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

Runoff for the #18 player in baseball history. Poll closes Friday AM.

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@SF11704 @Hunter Montana

 

[calsnowskier]

I still think it is too early for Griffey, but everyone else is deserving…

I can be convinced, but I think this how I rank this group…

Pedro
Pujols
Foxx
DiMaggio
Young
Griffey

Maybe DiMaggio over Foxx.

 

[LHG]

I still think it is too early for Griffey, but everyone else is deserving…

I can be convinced, but I think this how I rank this group…

Pedro
Pujols
Foxx
DiMaggio
Young
Griffey

Maybe DiMaggio over Foxx.

Definitely agree on Griffey.

Compare Foxx to DiMaggio:
Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3
92.2 WAR, 57.9 WAR7; 163 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3
79.1 WAR, 52.1 WAR7; 155 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Foxx clearly had the better hitting career.

 

[LHG]

Let's add Albert Pujols to this comparison:

Albert Pujols (1B) 2001-2022
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 10 ASG
Bold: R 5, H 1, 2B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 6 (consecutive!)
101.4 WAR, 61.7 WAR7; 145 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 2
170 - 3
160 - 1
150 - 4
140 - 1
130 - 1

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3
92.2 WAR, 57.9 WAR7; 163 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3
79.1 WAR, 52.1 WAR7; 155 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

 

[eaglesnut]

Pujols

Prime + longevity

I do love Pedro though. He's probably next.

 

[msgkings322]

Definitely agree on Griffey.

Compare Foxx to DiMaggio:
Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3
92.2 WAR, 57.9 WAR7; 163 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3
79.1 WAR, 52.1 WAR7; 155 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Foxx clearly had the better hitting career.

For these lists more than just hitting is considered though, and these guys are close. Everyone is close at this point, you can make a good case for about 20 different players for the next 5-10 spots.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

For these lists more than just hitting is considered though, and these guys are close. Everyone is close at this point, you can make a good case for about 20 different players for the next 5-10 spots.

I don’t really see any reason for foxx over pujols.

And the only argument I see for Joe d over pujols is the ws specialness in Joe d

The only other player I think should be discussed is Arod. But arod ain’t winning anytime soon.

 

[calsnowskier]

Definitely agree on Griffey.

Compare Foxx to DiMaggio:
Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3
92.2 WAR, 57.9 WAR7; 163 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3
79.1 WAR, 52.1 WAR7; 155 career OPS+
OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Foxx clearly had the better hitting career.

DiMaggio had the accolades, though. But he was in NY. Not that Philly was the west coast, but it certainly wasn’t NYC.

 

[calsnowskier]

For these lists more than just hitting is considered though, and these guys are close. Everyone is close at this point, you can make a good case for about 20 different players for the next 5-10 spots.

Traffic

 

[calsnowskier]

I don’t really see any reason for foxx over pujols.

And the only argument I see for Joe d over pujols is the ws specialness in Joe d

The only other player I think should be discussed is Arod. But arod ain’t winning anytime soon.

If we are just looking at numbers, ARod is maybe a top 5, certainly top 10.

 

[msgkings322]

Traffic

For sure but to me this is where it gets interesting. The top 7-8 are sort of obvious now we’re seeing how the 30 of us value things with dozens of players that all have a good case for these spots.

You’re the one doing the work and it’s much appreciated. This is why I want to keep going, maybe to 30?

 

[calsnowskier]

For these lists more than just hitting is considered though, and these guys are close. Everyone is close at this point, you can make a good case for about 20 different players for the next 5-10 spots.

I think Pujols and Foxx are really close. They played the same position, but Pujols got an extension due to the DH which makes Foxx’s numbers more impressive. I suspect Pujols played in smaller stadiums as well, so his power numbers (absolute, not bold or +) got an additional external bump.

 

[calsnowskier]

But DiMaggio, who had a small but clear gap between his bat and Foxx/Pujols, played a premium defensive position.

Again, all 3 are SUPER close.

But I still have the last of the ‘90s great pitchers above them all.

And Young, imho, is clearly below Pedro.

 

[LHG]

DiMaggio had the accolades, though. But he was in NY. Not that Philly was the west coast, but it certainly wasn’t NYC.

I do think DiMaggio is getting a NY bonus bump on this. All three won 3 MVPs in their careers. Foxx has the best career OPS+ and he played 21 seasons (he didn't have the Pujols slide at the end of his career). He also had the most seasons of an OPS+ of 180 or greater of the three.

DiMaggio appeared on the most MVP ballots and got into the most All-Star games but I do think that was helped by the fact that he was a Yankee. milkspiller pointed out that DiMaggio really only had one or two good postseason appearances but he was on a loaded Yankee team for the majority of his career so he got plenty of post season appearances.

I do that Joltin' Joe is the 3rd best of these three hitters but he has the biggest shine to his name.

 

[calsnowskier]

I do think DiMaggio is getting a NY bonus bump on this. All three won 3 MVPs in their careers. Foxx has the best career OPS+ and he played 21 seasons (he didn't have the Pujols slide at the end of his career). He also had the most seasons of an OPS+ of 180 or greater of the three.

DiMaggio appeared on the most MVP ballots and got into the most All-Star games but I do think that was helped by the fact that he was a Yankee. milkspiller pointed out that DiMaggio really only had one or two good postseason appearances but he was on a loaded Yankee team for the majority of his career so he got plenty of post season appearances.

I do that Joltin' Joe is the 3rd best of these three hitters but he has the biggest shine to his name.

Foxx, for some weird reason, has been largely forgotten by history (except to the wacko baseball fan, which all of us are). Conversely, DiMaggio has been embraced by history. The Yankees and Marilynn likely had a lot to do with that.

 

[calsnowskier]

@LHG voted Cy for the #1 slot. At least he is being consistent by maintaining that opinion here at 19…

LOL

 

[LHG]

@LHG voted Cy for the #1 slot. At least he is being consistent by maintaining that opinion here at 19…

LOL

My take for the number #1 spot was ignorant. This whole exercise has caused me to dig in to the players throughout MLB and get a better handle on who should be ranked where. But, yes, Cy Young is overdue, in my opinion. Pedro Martinez has a strong case for being ranked next. So does Lefty Grove.

 

[msgkings322]

My take for the number #1 spot was ignorant. This whole exercise has caused me to dig in to the players throughout MLB and get a better handle on who should be ranked where. But, yes, Cy Young is overdue, in my opinion. Pedro Martinez has a strong case for being ranked next. So does Lefty Grove.

This is the fascinating part...there are about 15 players with a legit claim to these spots.

Like, is it time to get Berra or Bench in there? Their numbers can't compare to outfielders and first basemen but the position MATTERS. And Berra won a ton of hardware. But so did Bench...I may have to start adding one of those guys in...and I can't decide LOL

Surprised how Bench (75.1) has a lot more WAR than Berra (59.5)

 

[msgkings322]

Speaking of DiMaggio, yeah there's a 'mystique' bonus with him but it's just an add on. Mystique alone doesn't get you there or people would be repping Jeter or Reggie or Ripken more. You need to be in the mix then mystique gets you bonus points, like DiMaggio and Koufax and Cy Young

 

[LHG]

This is the fascinating part...there are about 15 players with a legit claim to these spots.

Like, is it time to get Berra or Bench in there? Their numbers can't compare to outfielders and first basemen but the position MATTERS. And Berra won a ton of hardware. But so did Bench...I may have to start adding one of those guys in...and I can't decide LOL

Surprised how Bench (75.1) has a lot more WAR than Berra (59.5)

I'm not ready to add in those catchers. I do believe that WAR reflects their defensive value, and there are a few hitters above them in terms of WAR. They are getting closer, though.