POLL Top 10 poll #19: #19 player in history - Runoff

[LHG]

I don’t disagree. He got an extra 2 or 3 slots based entirely on a speech he gave. And at that range, 2 or 3 slots are HUGE. For something completely unrelated to anything on the field.

Meh, looking back, I think he was put in 1 spot too high. Not egregious in my book but I'd have put Cy Young in his spot and have been rethinking that high of a ranking for some time. But Cy Young needs to be in the discussions now. This low is pretty bad (whether you like Pedro Martinez higher or not).

 

[calsnowskier]

Meh, looking back, I think he was put in 1 spot too high. Not egregious in my book but I'd have put Cy Young in his spot and have been rethinking that high of a ranking for some time. But Cy Young needs to be in the discussions now. This low is pretty bad (whether you like Pedro Martinez higher or not).

I have been saying for a while that the ’90s pitchers needed a full run. 3 of them have gotten named, there is 1 left. Young is probably the best after these guys (Mathewson deserves a seat at the debate table, though).

I agree Young belongs in the discussion here, but not above Pedro.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Meh, looking back, I think he was put in 1 spot too high. Not egregious in my book but I'd have put Cy Young in his spot and have been rethinking that high of a ranking for some time. But Cy Young needs to be in the discussions now. This low is pretty bad (whether you like Pedro Martinez higher or not).

CY will always be difficult to measure. Pre 1900 for the important part of his career, deadball era, pitchers all went over 300 innings.

The era by itself explains a lot. But what hurts him the most was Walter Johnson. Not back when he played of course. But the baseball “experts” all gave the best pitcher award to Johnson. It’s hard to give the era the justice and give the greats in that era their due.

I think we all agree that analyzing pitching stats is generally harder than offense. But taking that era is just even harder. I dont think anyone has any confidence in any pitching pick. Other than Johnson and Clemens.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I get that you are using legend status to elevate him but the numbers just are not there compared to these other guys. Look at OPS+ seasons and compare them to Foxx and Ott. They have more dominant seasons than DiMaggio. Sure, he missed three years, but there is nothing in his body of work that suggests his missed seasons would have been as good as Foxx and Ott's similarly aged seasons.

It seems that you are buying into the hype and rating based on that. Hype isn't always backed up by reality. And I'm not trying to say DiMaggio wasn't one of the all time greats. He was. Anyone who gets rated at Top 50 baseball is all time, considering MLB has seen well over 20,000 players in its history. My point is that there are a few more who are better than haven't been ranked. Hype has to be taken with a huge amounts of grains of salt.

Especially when you give into the hype multiple ways.

And reward the legend/hero status in multiple ways. When lots of the legend/hero status is based on the fans and not the player himself.

It’s not the modern players fault that fans are almost angry at them because they make so much money.

 

[LHG]

I have been saying for a while that the ’90s pitchers needed a full run. 3 of them have gotten named, there is 1 left. Young is probably the best after these guys (Mathewson deserves a seat at the debate table, though).

I agree Young belongs in the discussion here, but not above Pedro.

Lefty Grove also deserves to be in the discussion.

 

[calsnowskier]

Lefty Grove also deserves to be in the discussion.

After Pedro, so I have not looked at him in detail yet. But sure.

 

[eaglesnut]

But for the record, I still think Kent is a top 5-ish all time 2B.

Certainly below Morgan and Collins and Lajoie. But he is in the same neighborhood as Alomar and Whitaker and Robinson

Edit: Sandburg is probably above him as well…

And Utley

 

[broncosmitty]

And Utley

And Hornsby.

And Gerhinger.

And Carew.

And Randolph.

And Grich.

And Frisch.

And Altuve.

And Cano.

And Biggio.

And Pedroia.

And Kinsler.

Kent might be a Top 20 second baseman. He isn’t close to Top 5. Or even ten.