too soon for an NFL thread?

[Darkstone42]

Just for the record, no way am I saying Incognito is an innocent angel. I think you know that already though.

I do hope Martin overcomes whatever he's going through. IF, however, he's coming up with excuses and these excuses wing up hurting other people - that's not cool - whether or not he was in his right mind when he did it. I think we agree there, too.

Also, you're making it sound like no one has jumped to Martin's defense. Since the story broke, all I heard was news story after news story supporting him and his case. Incognito was suspended from the team and everyone in the country believed him to be an evil fucker. It was like the Duke Lacrosse case all over again. However, I guess you're talking about different support.

What bugs me a little is when you bring up this thing about blaming society - cause guess what? That includes me and I don't like it.

I'm including me, too. I know I'm part of the problem, I know I have to work on identifying and dealing with this sort of problem. I'm also a member of r*pe culture, not because I blame victims, but because I have done nothing to shift that paradigm. We all have to own it.

If Martin's not in his right mind, and he's blaming Incognito and other teammates for bullying him, it's not him making excuses. It's him trying (and believing he's succeeded) to identify why he's feeling the way he is. One of the toughest things to deal with when you're not in your right mind, when you're depressed for example, is not being able to assign a rationale for your thoughts/feelings. A teammate making comments about how you're biracial and how he wants to slap your mother and other teammates saying they want to "run the train" on your sister, well those seem like reasonable things to target for how you're feeling, I would imagine.

Really, though, the culture the Dolphins' organization fostered top to bottom is what's really to blame here. It's not welcoming, it's not inclusive to anyone who might be "different." It's damaging, clearly, in the instance that someone doesn't fit in.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

wha?

Police report filed against Richie Incognito for alleged molestation in 2012, but no charges - ESPN

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I chuckled at this twitter retirement announcement (former seahawks lineman)

John Moffitt ‏@Moffitt74 5 Nov Football was fun but my head hurts-haha kidding roger goodell. I'm on to new things, thanks to everyone along the way!!!

interesting stuff ...

Saying 'I'm not happy at all,' Broncos' John Moffitt quits NFL

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The Los Angeles Times catches up with former tight end Cam Cleeland, an eight-year veteran who retired in 2005. Cleeland was the victim of one of the NFL's most notorious military-style hazing scandals. As a Saints rookie in 1998, Cleeland was forced to "run the gantlet"—go through a hallway with a pillowcase over his head as players lined up on either side to take their shots.
"You tried to make it through, and they literally just beat the ever-loving crap out of you as you tried to get through. Everything you can imagine, from kicking, punching, scrapping. I remember my ankle was sore and I had missed two days of practice because I had rolled my ankle. Guys were like, 'He's got a bum ankle! We don't care!' And as I got to the end, I got punched in the nose, so my nose was bleeding. As I rolled my head, I got kicked in the leg and my ankle rolled. I brought my head up …"

And that's when the fateful blow came, one that not only changed Cleeland's life but turned a spotlight on the dark underbelly of professional football. Cleeland was clubbed in the face by a sock filled with coins, coins that free-agent linebacker Andre Royal had spent all day collecting from teammates. Nobody knew what he planned to do with them, but they had donated them by the fistful. Royal would later say he was aiming for the ribs. Instead, the shot shattered Cleeland's eye socket and nearly cost him his eye, which now provides him only with partial vision. He also suffered a badly broken nose.
It was just as bad for other players. Jeff Danish crashed through a glass window at the end of the gantlet and nearly fell three stories. Chris Naeole was on crutches, but was forced to go through anyway. Kyle Turley, who seriously injured his kneecap during his run, remembers that it was basically mandatory:

"The guys who chose not to participate and locked themselves in their room, got buckets of water thrown under their doors. The water didn't come from the sink, but from toilets, with urine. Guys that decided not to show up, their belongings were trashed, pissed on, their beds, all their clothes."

(It's worth noting that Mike Ditka, who said Sunday, "When this would happen in my time, you take the bully and you kick his butt," is probably a liar. He was the head coach of the Saints from 1997-1999.)



/


Cleeland's career would overlap briefly with Incognito's, on the 2005 Rams. Without claiming he knows what went on in Miami, Cleeland has strong memories of Incognito as a teammate:
"I'm not afraid to say that he was an immature, unrealistic scumbag," Cleeland said. "When it came down to it, he had no personality, he was a locker-room cancer, and he just wanted to fight everybody all the time. It was bizarre beyond belief."

 

[dash]

Interesting listening to Mitch Berger (former NFL player (okay punter)) talking about Martin. He definitely isn't leaping to Martin's defense (actually used the word "rat" when describing Martin).

 

[Comeds]

I dont really know what happened but from a lot of the comments I read it sounds like Martin could have been held down and raped with football pump and some players and former players would complain that he talked.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

you gotta keep stuff like anal r*pe with a football pump in the room

 

[dash]

Mitch Berger is also a Cris Carter fan (lol)

/to be fair, I've heard other players say that Carter was a great player, but a terrible teammate.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Mitch Berger is also a Cris Carter fan (lol)

/to be fair, I've heard other players say that Carter was a great player, but a terrible teammate.

You rat, That statement should never be leaked outside the swamp dash !!

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I'm including me, too. I know I'm part of the problem, I know I have to work on identifying and dealing with this sort of problem. I'm also a member of r*pe culture, not because I blame victims, but because I have done nothing to shift that paradigm. We all have to own it.

If Martin's not in his right mind, and he's blaming Incognito and other teammates for bullying him, it's not him making excuses. It's him trying (and believing he's succeeded) to identify why he's feeling the way he is. One of the toughest things to deal with when you're not in your right mind, when you're depressed for example, is not being able to assign a rationale for your thoughts/feelings. A teammate making comments about how you're biracial and how he wants to slap your mother and other teammates saying they want to "run the train" on your sister, well those seem like reasonable things to target for how you're feeling, I would imagine.

Really, though, the culture the Dolphins' organization fostered top to bottom is what's really to blame here. It's not welcoming, it's not inclusive to anyone who might be "different." It's damaging, clearly, in the instance that someone doesn't fit in.

You can blame yourself and beat yourself up all you want. That's your right. My problem was including ME in this. I hate the use of general terms like "society" and "culture". These are broad, all-encompassing words that make grand sweeping generalizations about whole groups of people and invariably fault people who are in no way to blame.

And again, you're taking some facts we learned from this story and you automatically begin imagining different scenarios. That's an emotional, non-objective response and serves no purpose other than to get all worked up. Whenever you start a paragraph with something like "How would you feel if..." or "Can you just imagine..." I stop reading. Those aren't facts. They MIGHT be how Martin is really feeling...or they may NOT be. We don't know. I can make up all kinds of stuff, too, by picking out different facts from the case and making up my own story about something else.

 

[dash]

The only thing I would add is that I'm quite sure Martin endured hazing in both high school and college football. Maybe it was quite tame in comparison to what was going on with the Dolphins, only he knows the answer to that. The other thing is that the team concept is drilled into these guys from an early age and "we're all in this together, we win as a team and we lose as a team" you guys know all the phrases. Who knows, maybe he went to one of the Dolphins coaches and was told it would be taken care of and nothing was done? Lots of questions remained unanswered and the only thing that I'm quite confident of is that it wasn't easy for Martin to come forward with complaints about a teammate.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The only thing I would add is that I'm quite sure Martin endured hazing in both high school and college football. Maybe it was quite tame in comparison to what was going on with the Dolphins, only he knows the answer to that. The other thing is that the team concept is drilled into these guys from an early age and "we're all in this together, we win as a team and we lose as a team" you guys know all the phrases. Who knows, maybe he went to one of the Dolphins coaches and was told it would be taken care of and nothing was done? Lots of questions remained unanswered and the only thing that I'm quite confident of is that it wasn't easy for Martin to come forward with complaints about a teammate.

is that out there as fact?

i heard audio of Andrew Luck say nothing went on like that at Stanford and that he thought of Martin as a brother

saw someone mention that Martins lawyer/agent is trying to get him released

the name dropping press release by Martins lawyer pretty much gives away what are probably the only 2 landing spots (if he even wants to come back) in the league for Martin ... 49ers and Colts

 

[dash]

is that out there as fact?

Obviously difficult to validate, but so is the difference between hazing and team initiation rituals don't you think?

 

[elocomotive]

The report states that the volunteer told police that Incognito "used his golf club to touch her by rubbing it up against her vagina, then up her stomach then to her chest. He then used the club to knock a pair of sunglasses off the top of her head.

"After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying 'Let it rain! Let it rain!'" the report states. "He finally finished his inappropriate behavior by emptying bottled water in her face."

Geeesh. Nobody let he and Varly hang out together.

 

[dash]

Geeesh. Nobody let he and Varly hang out together.

C'mon eloco, this isn't romper room.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Gee Tomlinson's initiation with the Chargers was taking a bunch of teammates to Moton Steakhouse. The Bill was over 32 grand & Tomlinson didn't give a rats ass. Steve Young said that Bill Walsh told the team there wouldn't be in rookie hazing on his team. Walsh felt it was hard enough just to make the roster for any rookies. Why make things any more difficult than they already were going to be. Some teams get it others obviously don't.

 

[elocomotive]

C'mon eloco, this isn't romper room.

I gotta admit - I laughed pretty hard at that one.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Geeesh. Nobody let he and Varly hang out together.

 

[elocomotive]

LOL! Those are two wild and crazy guys.

 

[Comeds]

Let it rain! Let it rain!