Series Thread: tOfficial Mariners 2019 Season Thread

[seahawksfan234]

I can't remember if I posted this on here several years back or not but I ate up with an idea of doing this (not the idea of course). I suggested using a RH bullpen arm to pitch through the lineup once hoping to get the other team to use their LH lineup then switch over to a LH starter to take advantage of. I never had the idea of using them one inning nor did I have the idea od announcing that we were going to switch pitchers at a certain point during the game. The only theory I subscribe to by doing this thing is that since starters don't go 7 very often then use the lesser pitcher early so if he is to give up the runs it is early giving your team a chance to comeback and not in the 7th leaving only 9 outs to comeback with. But if this is the strategy, I personally would use say 9 starters and two bullpen arms on the roster instead of making a bullpen arm an 'opener'. That never made sense to me really. Say use an Andrew Moore as a unto 3 inning starter then come in with a Leblanc.

It's interesting how much the game has changed in recent years. I think teams are trying to get overly creative in an attempt to gain an edge or compensate for a lack of talent. I understand the usage of the shift and don't have much issue with it and I think sabermetrics and advanced statistics do help, but the whole opener/bullpen starting the game by committee is something I am reluctant to get behind.

I also think that one of the issues with using an opener is that generally if a pitcher begins to struggle, it's when they become fatigued due to pitch count. I'm hungover so I don't know how to articulate this, but if a starting pitcher is going to give up the lead I'd rather it be in the 6th or 7th inning instead of the 7th or 8th inning.

 

[seahawksfan234]

In typical Mariner fashion our team struggles to a bittersweet win.

Fact one: we beat a team we are competing with for the first pick in the 2020 draft. So, did we really win?

Fact two: Mike Leake won the game but giving up 7 earned runs in five innings hurt his trade value after he been steadily building it his previous three starts.

Damn team can't do anything right.

Those are the thoughts I had. The Mariners right now are on their best 10-game stretch since the beginning of the season.

The only three things I want from this team this year in no order:

1. Younger players show development and that they can actually be part of a contending team.
2. Trade assets perform as well as possible so that we can get something more than a QFC grocery bagger and minimal salary relief.
3. The team loses as many games as possible so that we improve draft positioning.

Those three contradict each other, but one can dream.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I wonder how many of us M's "fans" actually give a shit about this Team anymore, it's Management, the FO and Ownership. Not looking for any answers, just throwing the thought out there is all.

I believe the city in general is very apathetic regarding the Mariners and has been most of this century. If I had a penny for every time someone asked me why I actually care about the Mariners because "they suck" I could pay off the rest of Cano's contract.

Most of the Mariners "fans" I know who are friends/colleagues always ask me questions about the team because I'm the only person any of them know who can name more than 5 players on the roster.

When (if) the Mariners actually build a playoff contender the sentiment will drastically change. I know it's a different sport, but even from 2008-2010 people had the same sentiment about the Seahawks despite making the playoffs in 2007 and playing in the Superbowl in 2005. Things change with winning.

The biggest issue is that with how bad the team has been for so long, I think there has been a level of complacency with the mediocrity at the ownership, front office and fan level.

 

[Duders]

I'm hungover (Hope is was a GREAT Friday night) so I don't know how to articulate this, but if a starting pitcher is going to give up the lead I'd rather it be in the 6th or 7th inning instead of the 7th or 8th inning.

I agree with you BUT I also feel the Manager should have a good read on how his pitcher is doing and pull him before he gets too deep into trouble and I have zero faith that Servais has that skill or ability and into his 4th season still lacks it. IMO

 

[seahawksfan234]

I agree with you BUT I also feel the Manager should have a good read on how his pitcher is doing and pull him before he gets too deep into trouble and I have zero faith that Servais has that skill or ability and into his 4th season still lacks it. IMO

Couldn't agree more.

I'd have more faith in a palm reading than Servais being able to manage a pitching staff. Servais has a lot of things to complain about, but for me his mis-management with the pitchers is probably my biggest gripe.

P.S. The Friday night is never worth the Saturday hangover.

 

[PolarVortex]

I agree with you BUT I also feel the Manager should have a good read on how his pitcher is doing and pull him before he gets too deep into trouble and I have zero faith that Servais has that skill or ability and into his 4th season still lacks it. IMO

I think a manager should be able to refer to his pitching coach to determine when the appropriate time is to pull the starter. I'm so far removed from this team that I don't even know who the pitching coach is nor how long his tenure has been.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I think a manager should be able to refer to his pitching coach to determine when the appropriate time is to pull the starter. I'm so far removed from this team that I don't even know who the pitching coach is nor how long his tenure has been.

I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that this is his first year as our pitching coach and 7 years ago was an adjunct professor of teaching psychology and sports management. In 2018 he was the "Manager of Pitching Analytics" for the Cardinals.

Coach Bio

 

[PolarVortex]

I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that this is his first year as our pitching coach and 7 years ago was an adjunct professor of teaching psychology and sports management. In 2018 he was the "Manager of Pitching Analytics" for the Cardinals.

Coach Bio

Oh Gawd. That explains alot.

 

[Duders]

I think a manager should be able to refer to his pitching coach to determine when the appropriate time is to pull the starter. I'm so far removed from this team that I don't even know who the pitching coach is nor how long his tenure has been.

That's true about the pitching coach. I have no idea how competent the PC that we have currently, but from what seahawksfan234 shared I'm guessing he isn't worth a hill of beans. (Whatever a hill of beans is worth...lol) Anyway, it's up to Servais to pull the trigger, and for whatever reasons, he does a pretty shitty job of managing the pitching staff IMO.

 

[wazzu31]

I can't remember if I posted this on here several years back or not but I ate up with an idea of doing this (not the idea of course). I suggested using a RH bullpen arm to pitch through the lineup once hoping to get the other team to use their LH lineup then switch over to a LH starter to take advantage of. I never had the idea of using them one inning nor did I have the idea od announcing that we were going to switch pitchers at a certain point during the game. The only theory I subscribe to by doing this thing is that since starters don't go 7 very often then use the lesser pitcher early so if he is to give up the runs it is early giving your team a chance to comeback and not in the 7th leaving only 9 outs to comeback with. But if this is the strategy, I personally would use say 9 starters and two bullpen arms on the roster instead of making a bullpen arm an 'opener'. That never made sense to me really. Say use an Andrew Moore as a unto 3 inning starter then come in with a Leblanc.

Well there is an issue with your philosophy and why I am against the opener as a strategy. No matter how good your offense is, intentionally putting yourself into the odds of losing isn’t a winning strategy. I can understand the opener because during the regular season teams don’t adjust their rotation to where their ace is facing the opponents ace. Furthermore I hate the Rays being used as the example of using an opener just as I hate the Astros and Cubs being used as a rebuild. The Mariners don’t have the staff to use an opener, they don’t have 2 stud starters nor do they have the arms that can overcome putting themselves in a hole.

 

[Duders]

Well there is an issue with your philosophy and why I am against the opener as a strategy. No matter how good your offense is, intentionally putting yourself into the odds of losing isn’t a winning strategy. I can understand the opener because during the regular season teams don’t adjust their rotation to where their ace is facing the opponents ace. Furthermore I hate the Rays being used as the example of using an opener just as I hate the Astros and Cubs being used as a rebuild. The Mariners don’t have the staff to use an opener, they don’t have 2 stud starters nor do they have the arms that can overcome putting themselves in a hole.

Nor do they have a manager who actually knows how to manage that pitching staff.

 

[Duders]

Ha- guess what?- 50 years ago the Seattle Pilots were in last place in the West Division- 50 years later the Seattle Mariners are in last place in their division. Kind of ironic how some things go round and round and end right where they started.
Out of 30 Major League Baseball teams, Seattle Mariners are in 25th place. One hell of a 1st year rebuild year I'd say. You go Jerry Dipoto

 

[NWinAZ]

The Mariners don’t have the staff to use an opener, they don’t have 2 stud starters nor do they have the arms that can overcome putting themselves in a hole.

They don't and my pint was if this is your philosophy then you have to build the roster accordingly. That is why my plan was using multiple starters and not using bullpen guys and letting the 'B' starter go through the lineup once before putting in the 'A' starter. You either have a RH/LH advantage the first time through the lineup or you have it after when the next starter comes in. Now this is only based on a team that has 8 or 9 #3 type starters or worse which M's usually have. The best strategy is, and always has been, to get real fucking starters of quality!

 

[Duders]

Came back in after screwing around out in the veggie garden pulling weeds and see the sacks are juiced with no outs in the bot of the 3rd and M's ahead 3-2. Might stick around and watch for a bit I guess.

Oh gawd, loud mouth Aaron is back. The guy's yelling/screaming and his laugh for some reason bug the hell out of me

 

[wazzu31]

They don't and my pint was if this is your philosophy then you have to build the roster accordingly. That is why my plan was using multiple starters and not using bullpen guys and letting the 'B' starter go through the lineup once before putting in the 'A' starter. You either have a RH/LH advantage the first time through the lineup or you have it after when the next starter comes in. Now this is only based on a team that has 8 or 9 #3 type starters or worse which M's usually have. The best strategy is, and always has been, to get real fucking starters of quality!

Well ya, the last part is ideal. And is the part that gets left out of the opener strategy that Jerry keeps talking about. If you build a staff as the opener as the philosophy you will get killed in the postseason. Pro opener guys cite the Astros win over the Dodgers in the WS but leave out when they had 6 guys who could be aces for half the league.

My whole anger or whatever about the new analytics guys is they cite the A’s, Rays, Cubs and Astros. The A’s haven’t even made a WS, then the new age stuff with the Rays have two starters the rest of the league would drool to have and the Cubs and Astros are the outlier of how they damn near hit on every aspect of their rebuild. The Astros finding Altuve negates the couple of 1st round picks they blew, same with the Cubs lucking out on Arrieta. Finding a top 5 position player and ace on the scrap heap doesn’t just happen. I guess it is just annoying when they use the two examples of it working but don’t ever cite examples of total breakdowns not working like the Blue Jays and Padres or total break downs but haven’t won the series yet like the Indians.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Ha- guess what?- 50 years ago the Seattle Pilots were in last place in the West Division- 50 years later the Seattle Mariners are in last place in their division. Kind of ironic how some things go round and round and end right where they started.
Out of 30 Major League Baseball teams, Seattle Mariners are in 25th place. One hell of a 1st year rebuild year I'd say. You go Jerry Dipoto

We've watched some really bad baseball and sadly they won't be bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

 

[Duders]

We've watched some really bad baseball and sadly they won't be bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

I don't think we are going to see a post season team for a long long time. Sad, but I bet a lot of older fans won't live long enough to see the M's in a post season game.

 

[wazzu31]

We've watched some really bad baseball and sadly they won't be bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

I don’t know, without the 13-2 start and not playing the Orioles, the M’s have the winning percentage for the number 2 pick.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That's true about the pitching coach. I have no idea how competent the PC that we have currently, but from what seahawksfan234 shared I'm guessing he isn't worth a hill of beans. (Whatever a hill of beans is worth...lol) Anyway, it's up to Servais to pull the trigger, and for whatever reasons, he does a pretty shitty job of managing the pitching staff IMO.

I'm kind of in the minority when it comes to being in favor of using analytic methods, but when it comes to being a pitching coach I feel like having MLB playing experience is pretty important. I feel like it is probably very hard to relate to a pitcher when you've never taken the mound in an MLB game.

Paul Davis (the pitching coach) is probably a really smart guy and has an impressive academic resume, but just based on that he seems more suited to being in an advisory role.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Came back in after screwing around out in the veggie garden pulling weeds and see the sacks are juiced with no outs in the bot of the 3rd and M's ahead 3-2. Might stick around and watch for a bit I guess.

Oh gawd, loud mouth Aaron is back. The guy's yelling/screaming and his laugh for some reason bug the hell out of me

Dude, no kidding. His laugh sounds so forced and over exaggerated. I worked with a guy like that and I couldn't fucking stand it. Whenever I'd make a joke that wasn't very funny or just deserved a charity chuckle, he'd let out a loud/ridiculous laugh like what Goldsmith does.

It could just be me but every time he has been on air I've observed it seems the other people in the booth aren't all that found of him and there is a serious lack of chemistry.

I don't know why but I've always been really critical of broadcast teams irrespective of the sport or team. I probably bitch about play-by-play/commentary more than anything else when watching sports, mostly with football though.