Toby

[optimist4720]

You brought up exactly the problem..men also have families yet are not at a competitive disadvantage by your own indirect admission that women are at a disadvantage if they have families. That is exactly what the article describes. Point is there should be no disadvantage for women who have families as there is by your admission no disadvantages of men having families. In fact, women are doing more that the men in terms of both running a family and having a career. But due to the circumstances and the nature of male bonding they are often omitted from the higher positions whether or not they have families due to preconceptions of what women can and cannot do. And BTW once again CATO is not an objective source of anything..and the people who lecture are paid by CATO to give points of view which they agree with. BTW your victim crap is just that..women have been victims long before any of "creating victimization mentality" thesis. Everything they have gotten they had to fight for. Same for other minorities. We see and observe and go through life everyday experiencing various forms of racism. Not everyone is racist nor is it always intended to have racial overtones but it exists and surrounds us all the time. Less so in the Bay Area and California...but certainly in the countryside and certainly in the South. There is no such thing a double blind study on what we experience but it is what we experience and no less valid. Certainly more valid than an empty denial by you. You argument is that it doesn't exist because it doesn't conform to your opinion...but it does conform to my life experience. Hence my comment is racism, prejudice and sex discrimination are pervasive and come in many forms which many of experience on a personal level. In fact, it is rather common and we laugh it off most of the time...but it certainly is there.

 

[optimist4720]

Actually, Social Security is the best of govt. inventions..a copy of the insurance industry. It is essentially an annuity. Has worked great for years until we started to live too long and started to cut the tax to stimulate the economy....hence the concern over it's overall health, but easily fixed. It is one of the most successful and good govt programs . Yes , it is true we all use the govt for something as uncomfortable as it might make you feel.

 

[optimist4720]

in any case , go 49ers... pluck the seabirds tomorrow!!

 

[NinerSickness]

Social Security was, is, and will always be THEFT, not welfare. Rob Peter to pay Paul. Rob John and Ron to Pay Peter. Rob Jill, Jack, Steph, and Shane to pay....etc, etc, etc...

It's become both actually. Benefits are given to those who don't pay in, and benefits aren't based on how much one has contributed. I agree it's theft, and it's one of the stupidest and most irresponsible concepts ever concocted, but it's functioning as a welfare program too.

...by the way, Social Security became insolvent in 2010. Like most government run pension plans, it will eventually become incapable of making the payments people have been promised (probably in like 25 years).

 

[RoboticDreams]

It's become both actually. Benefits are given to those who don't pay in, and benefits aren't based on how much one has contributed. I agree it's theft, and it's one of the stupidest and most irresponsible concepts ever concocted, but it's functioning as a welfare program too.

...by the way, Social Security became insolvent in 2010. Like most government run pension plans, it will eventually become incapable of making the payments people have been promised (probably in like 25 years).

We better hurry up and get old. I don't know that it will last that long.

Imagine the mess we will be in at that point.

 

[darken65]

Good pre-game show so far...........

 

[Suhsyourdaddy]

Actually, Social Security is the best of govt. inventions..a copy of the insurance industry. It is essentially an annuity. Has worked great for years until we started to live too long and started to cut the tax to stimulate the economy....hence the concern over it's overall health, but easily fixed. It is one of the most successful and good govt programs . Yes , it is true we all use the govt for something as uncomfortable as it might make you feel.

Lol... I hope you are just really young and naive. Do you realize the amount of workers per recipients when Welfare was created? It was create under the guise of a way to help people, mostly widowed women, during their last handful of years on this earth. The reality is, it was set up so that all excess payments would have to be "lent" to the government to use at it pleases. It was a massive money grab to expand government.

The idea of social security is a novel one, but the way it was actually set up was pretty flawed. The cut to the tax to stimulate the economy was very minor in the grand scheme of things and would have no bearing what so ever on whether or not the program is/was sustainable.

As far as it being "essentially an annuity", that idea is laughable at best. The employee and employer share of SS is 12.4% of FORCED savings into the program. A 4% interest rate would be a pretty conservative return for an annuity. My wife makes around $70k a year and she is 31 years old. She has been at her job for around 7 years and has continue to work her way up in her company. She has made at least $50,000 a year over that time, meaning that she has had $43K contributed into the program since she has starter her career. This is not even counting the amount of what she has contributed since joining the workforce part time since she turned 16. If she had $43K in her bank account today and put it into an annuity today earning 4%, and continued to contribute 12.4% of her yearly salary(assuming she gets no future raises for the rest of her life), she would save around $350K and earn around $650K interest over the course of her working life. She would have over $1,000,000 in an ACTUAL investment account. She would draw $40,000 a year until she died and still have the money to fall back on, or pass it on to our children. How many people do you know that get $40,000 a year from social security?

If it was invested more aggressively like most young people will, the return could be substantially higher. Couple that with the reality that people my age will not be able to get benefits when we turn 65 and the amount of our social security will be a 50-75% of our "earned benefits", then the program does not and will not benefit me. And THAT makes me uncomfortable.

 

[darken65]

Social Security by defintion is a Ponzi scheme created by our government. Welfare ,food stamps and free health care(Medicaid) are paid for by the taxpayers with no money going back to anyone who pays to fund those programs. FDR was the best president ever........

 

[darken65]

Lol... I hope you are just really young and naive. Do you realize the amount of workers per recipients when Welfare was created? It was create under the guise of a way to help people, mostly widowed women, during their last handful of years on this earth. The reality is, it was set up so that all excess payments would have to be "lent" to the government to use at it pleases. It was a massive money grab to expand government.

The idea of social security is a novel one, but the way it was actually set up was pretty flawed. The cut to the tax to stimulate the economy was very minor in the grand scheme of things and would have no bearing what so ever on whether or not the program is/was sustainable.

As far as it being "essentially an annuity", that idea is laughable at best. The employee and employer share of SS is 12.4% of FORCED savings into the program. A 4% interest rate would be a pretty conservative return for an annuity. My wife makes around $70k a year and she is 31 years old. She has been at her job for around 7 years and has continue to work her way up in her company. She has made at least $50,000 a year over that time, meaning that she has had $43K contributed into the program since she has starter her career. This is not even counting the amount of what she has contributed since joining the workforce part time since she turned 16. If she had $43K in her bank account today and put it into an annuity today earning 4%, and continued to contribute 12.4% of her yearly salary(assuming she gets no future raises for the rest of her life), she would save around $350K and earn around $650K interest over the course of her working life. She would have over $1,000,000 in an ACTUAL investment account. She would draw $40,000 a year until she died and still have the money to fall back on, or pass it on to our children. How many people do you know that get $40,000 a year from social security?

If it was invested more aggressively like most young people will, the return could be substantially higher. Couple that with the reality that people my age will not be able to get benefits when we turn 65 and the amount of our social security will be a 50-75% of our "earned benefits", then the program does not and will not benefit me. And THAT makes me uncomfortable.

If I only had the money I invested (the government stoled from me) in the name of Social SECURITY, I would be well off in retirement. Now I can't rely on one cent coming my way and I still have to pay into it...life is grand!

 

[TobyTyler]

but he was right about everything else...

True, but he just threw that other stuff in to cover for his racism.

 

[TobyTyler]

Your source is current but the disparity is only 1% when comparing white /black and only reflects welfare not food stamps...and is taken during one of the worst economic recoveries of all time. Given whites start out with no inherent deficiencies of being a minority.. why so many whites on welfare in the first place? Could it be that wage disparity and being poor affects us all and minorities disproportionally? Also you didn't address how GWBush got into Yale and the inherent advantage certain groups have due to race and money and whether you have a problem with that. You seem to have the opinion people shouldn't take handouts...even the poor..does that also apply to the rich getting subsidies like farmers and corporations getting tax breaks to the point of paying no taxes?? Such as GE..

The disparity is small only when you look at overall percentage. When you take into account that there are 173 million white people in Ameirca and slightly over 5 muillion are on welfar and then see that there are only 35 million blacks in America and there are well over 5 million on welfare the differnce becomes truly striking.

 

[TobyTyler]

Your source is current but the disparity is only 1% when comparing white /black and only reflects welfare not food stamps...and is taken during one of the worst economic recoveries of all time. Given whites start out with no inherent deficiencies of being a minority.. why so many whites on welfare in the first place? Could it be that wage disparity and being poor affects us all and minorities disproportionally? Also you didn't address how GWBush got into Yale and the inherent advantage certain groups have due to race and money and whether you have a problem with that. You seem to have the opinion people shouldn't take handouts...even the poor..does that also apply to the rich getting subsidies like farmers and corporations getting tax breaks to the point of paying no taxes?? Such as GE..

It seemed too insignificant to mention plus I felt like you thought I had some respect for GW Bush but I really don't. I have a feeling you see him as racist and that's why you brought it up. It just seemed too silly to comment on.

 

[TobyTyler]

A pretty good discussion of the topic: The latest quote from Newt Grinch: “I will go to the NAACP convention and explain to the African-American community why they should demand paychecks instead of food stamps,” said Newt Gingrich at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire.



The latest quote from Mr. Rick Santorum: “I don’t want to give Black people somebody else’s money, I want them to go out and earn their own money”.



My question to Mr. Grinch, who seems to think “Black Americans” are the only ones receiving welfare assistance is this: The welfare rolls are filled with triple the caucasian recipients than other races, so will he attend the next KKK rally to explain to the caucasian community that they too should demand a paycheck instead of a welfare check or food stamps?





Welfare: A White Secret



Come on, my fellow white folks, we have something to confess. No, nothing to do with age spots or those indoor-tanning creams we use to get us through the | winter without looking like the final stages of TB. Nor am I talking about the fact that we all go home and practice funky dance moves behind drawn shades. Out with it, friends, the biggest secret known to whites since the invention of powdered rouge: welfare is a white program. Yep. At least it’s no more black than Vanilla Ice is a fair rendition of classic urban rap.



Despite prevailing stereotype, Whites, not Blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars



SAY the word “welfare” and immediately the image of the lazy Black welfare queen who breeds for profit surfaces in the minds of those who have come to believe the hideous stereotype. It is a myth that persists despite government figures and authoritative studies showing that Whites overwhelmingly reap the lion’s share of the dole.The image of the Black “welfare cheat,” public aid advocates say, is based on misconceptions about poor minorities. The notion, they say, comes from society’s resentment of seemingly able-bodied people getting paid for doing nothing.



“For some people, there is a need to believe that there are
professional welfare recipients who are deliberately trying to get not
only what they need to survive, but more,” says Anne D. Hill, director
of programs for the National Urban League. “People say to themselves: ‘I
work. How come this person who appears to be healthy isn’t working?’ We
tend to equate our condition with others without fully knowing their
circumstances.”



Hill and other welfare supporters argue that numbers, and not erroneous stereotypes, tell the real story about public assistance clients: Some 61 percent of welfare recipients are White, while 33 percent are Black, according to 1990 Census Bureau statistics, the latest figures available.



The federal government defines welfare as all entitlement programs funded through taxes. These programs, listed as “direct benefit payments for individuals” by the Office of Management and Budget, make up $730 billion or 43 percent of the $1.47 trillion the government will spend this fiscal year.



Social Security is the nation’s largest welfare program, although many Whites prefer to call it a retirement plan. The government writes retirement and disability benefit checks to 35.4 million recipients of whom 88.7 percent are White and 9.6 percent are Black. The reason behind this shocking disparity is perhaps the most lamentable of all: The life expectancy rate for Blacks is six years shorter than that of Whites, meaning Black workers spend years paying into a retirement system only to have White retirees reap the benefits for a longer time.



Welfare critics rarely search the Social Security rolls for “welfare cheats,” but train their sights on people getting Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), Medicaid and food stamps, the relief programs with the most Black clients. Yet government figures show that Whites not Blacks make up the bulk of clients on these public aid programs; a fact that dispels the notion that Blacks are scheming for a free lunch courtesy of the American taxpayer.



Among the poorest of the poor–single mothers, living below the poverty line with minor children to support 39.7 percent of AFDC clients are Black single mothers and 38.1 percent are White women with children. Food stamp recipients are 37.2 percent Black and 46.2 percent White. Medicaid benefits are paid to 27.5 percent Black recipients compared to 48.5 percent White clients.



Although the numbers show that Whites get the biggest chunk of public aid dollars, welfare critics still charge that Blacks shouldn’t collect 33 percent of welfare benefits when they only make up 12 percent of the general population. They say the imbalance proves their case that Blacks are too busy complaining and blaming racism for their plight to look for a job.



But racism is at the heart of the standard-of-living gap between Blacks and Whites, welfare advocates argue. Unlawful race-based hiring practices, they contend, keep Blacks from getting jobs that pay enough to lift them out of poverty. Until more blue-collar jobs open up to Black workers, Blacks will continue to battle poverty and the freeloader misconception.



Turning welfare reform into a “Black issue” makes racial scapegoating easy and allows stereotypes, like the Reagan era “welfare queen,” to go unchallenged, public aid supporters say. Right wing reformers cast Whites as “deserving” clients who are legitimately unable to pay their own way through no fault of their own. Blacks are labeled “undeserving” recipients who are looking for the feds to subsidize their slothfulness.



Now….reading the facts and truth listed above in this article….who actually are the recipients of welfare in the United States Of America? Caucasians by far.



I will list the facts and truth one more time….for those too ignorant, blind or racist to have comprehended them above….read them again below…..



Some 61 percent of welfare recipients are White, while 33 percent are Black, according to 1990 Census Bureau statistics, the latest figures available.



The federal government defines welfare as all entitlement programs funded through taxes. These programs, listed as “direct benefit payments for individuals” by the Office of Management and Budget, make up $730 billion or 43 percent of the $1.47 trillion the government will spend this fiscal year.



Social Security is the nation’s largest welfare program, although many Whites prefer to call it a retirement plan. The government writes retirement and disability benefit checks to 35.4 million recipients of whom 88.7 percent are White and 9.6 percent are Black. The reason behind this shocking disparity is perhaps the most lamentable of all: The life expectancy rate for Blacks is six years shorter than that of Whites, meaning Black workers spend years paying into a retirement system only to have White retirees reap the benefits for a longer time.



Welfare critics rarely search the Social Security rolls for “welfare cheats,” but train their sights on people getting Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), Medicaid and food stamps, the relief programs with the most Black clients. Yet government figures show that Whites not Blacks make up the bulk of clients on these public aid programs; a fact that dispels the notion that Blacks are scheming for a free lunch courtesy of the American taxpayer.

Wow! You could lose 50 pounds if you'd take that huge chip off your shoulder

 

[TobyTyler]

Can someone move this shit to the politics forum? This is ridiculous to have Niner fans in a football forum talking about race issues.

Shut up and participate in another thread if you don't like this one. Its really easy to just not open this thread.

 

[TobyTyler]

I still can't believe that men who rant on about their own opinion of womens reality in the workplace call a womans experience as "anecdotal".

Seriously, the hypocrisy in such a statement is off the charts. I have to believe that small penis is the only explanation for such an opinion.

People like you who can't be objective when something hits you personnally and act like a fool make discussions like this hard to participate in.

 

[threelittleturds]

Y'all just going about this the wrong way.

 

[NinerSickness]

Y'all just going about this the wrong way.

Well...

That's gotta be the creepiest thing I've ever seen on a sports forum.

 

[threelittleturds]

Well...

That's gotta be the creepiest thing I've ever seen on a sports forum.

Yep, but when I saw it on another forum I thought it'd drive NN crazy, well, only if Singletary's big cross was visible.

 

[NinerSickness]

Yep, but when I saw it on another forum I thought it'd drive NN crazy

I'd rather drive him away from SportsHoopla permanently.

 

[TobyTyler]

Y'all just going about this the wrong way.

Ha ha ha! That is terrible.