Three no brainer moves that Mattingly refuses to make

[Villain]

And Hatcher comes through for us again!

Any thoughts about his performance and how solid he has been Villian? Can we at least admit that he is our worst pitcher in the bullpen at this point? This guy is killing us.

Dodgers relievers that have been worse than Hatcher this year:

Serigo Santos - DFA'd this week
JP Howell - Can't get a strikeout to save his life
Juan Nicasio - Has a case of walk-everyone-itis

 

[duke1861]

Wednesday was Hatcher's fourth loss of the season. No other relief pitcher on the team has more than one loss. From his own mouth:

"When you're going out there and letting the team down every time, it's a big knock to your own confidence. You have 24 other guys depending on you," Hatcher said. "I feel like I'm a pretty hard worker. I try to make corrections, but it's just not working. I'm glad they have confidence in me, but I don't know why."

He has lost confidence and he doesn't even know why they keep putting him on the mound. Again, I think the experiment is over here.

 

[LASports96]

literally no chance Hatcher is going anywhere anytime soon

 

[lasportzphan]

literally no chance Hatcher is going anywhere anytime soon

the question is, what are the other options? So yes, he's not going anywhere. Honestly, he's little internal hissy fit in the dugout was odd. Sack up and act like a pro. I agree that he has a mental thing going on because his stuff is good. He's needs to stay ahead on counts and let teams give him outs.

 

[Villain]

Wednesday was Hatcher's fourth loss of the season. No other relief pitcher on the team has more than one loss. From his own mouth:

"When you're going out there and letting the team down every time, it's a big knock to your own confidence. You have 24 other guys depending on you," Hatcher said. "I feel like I'm a pretty hard worker. I try to make corrections, but it's just not working. I'm glad they have confidence in me, but I don't know why."

He has lost confidence and he doesn't even know why they keep putting him on the mound. Again, I think the experiment is over here.

You care about the win/loss record for relievers, so I really don't think that we could have a reasonable conversation on this. We're speaking different languages

 

[Smed55]

You care about the win/loss record for relievers, so I really don't think that we could have a reasonable conversation on this. We're speaking different languages

It kind of seems like you can't have a reasonable conversation with anyone! While wins for pitchers may depend on your offense helping you out by scoring runs, "loses" for a relief pitcher are relevant whether you think so or not, it's a reflection of them not getting their job done!


And if you don't think wins and losses for pitchers are relevant than your comment earlier about Howell not being able to get a strikeout to save his life is also irrelevant, it's not about strikeouts, it's about getting outs period!
Same thing with Nicasio, so he's walked some guys, they aren't scoring, so he's been getting his job done!

 

[duke1861]

No, its the fact that his ERA is extremely high and that he has no confidence. He said it himself!

 

[LASports96]

wins and losses are irrelevant

 

[duke1861]

And he strikes again....2 walks and another run. His ERA is right at 7 now. Any reason we keep this clown around?

Villan...care to address this?

 

[Villain]

And he strikes again....2 walks and another run. His ERA is right at 7 now. Any reason we keep this clown around?

Villan...care to address this?

ERA is almost useless when grading relief pitchers.

There's no doubt that Hatcher has been struggling this month. That doesn't mean the right answer is to banish him. I posted a link to a great write-up about Hatcher's struggles in the thread I made about the bullpen:

The Bullpen - Kenley Jansen and the Box of Pain™

Check that out.

 

[Smed55]

wins and losses are irrelevant

Evidently, according to the all mighty wizard! ERA's are useless also, don't ya know?

I think you should base relief pitchers on how fast they throw and how many strikeouts they get!
Inherited runners scored, wins, ERA, those are all useless irrelevant stats! LOl

 

[duke1861]

Villian-

We all want Hatcher to be successful and to pitch well. The problem is that we keep putting him into the game when the game is either close or on the line. For a pitcher who has no confidence (as he has admitted) we need to stop putting him in these situations until he gets his confidence back and pitches effectively.

I don't understand Mattingly's strategy with this at all. Should he be cut, no, but he doesn't need to sniff the mound unless we are behind by a large amount or we are ahead by several runs at this point. He even stated that he doesn't know why he is out there anymore!

 

[duke1861]

Hatcher gave up another HR today and another hit. His ERA is over 7. There is something very wrong with this guy. We need to send him to AAA or something. He gives up hits and runs each time he takes the mound.

 

[lasportzphan]

Hatcher gave up another HR today and another hit. His ERA is over 7. There is something very wrong with this guy. We need to send him to AAA or something. He gives up hits and runs each time he takes the mound.

He will not clear waivers, so DFAing him is not an option right now.... Friedman likes him, too.

 

[Villain]

Evidently, according to the all mighty wizard! ERA's are useless also, don't ya know?

I think you should base relief pitchers on how fast they throw and how many strikeouts they get!
Inherited runners scored, wins, ERA, those are all useless irrelevant stats! LOl

That's actually a pretty fair assesment of how I grade relievers. Although, "how fast they throw" only matters in comparison to career averages (like, if a guy used to throw 95 but is now sitting at 89).

But yea, I agree with that. For relievers I couldn't care less about ERA, W/L, or inherited runners.

Strikeout percentage, walk percentage, BABIP / FIP, GB%, FB%, etc. Those are more valuable tools.

 

[lasportzphan]

That's actually a pretty fair assesment of how I grade relievers. Although, "how fast they throw" only matters in comparison to career averages (like, if a guy used to throw 95 but is now sitting at 89).

But yea, I agree with that. For relievers I couldn't care less about ERA, W/L, or inherited runners.

Strikeout percentage, walk percentage, BABIP / FIP, GB%, FB%, etc. Those are more valuable tools.

Villian, situation has to come into that analysis at some point.... But your stats makes sense to me.

 

[Villain]

Villian, situation has to come into that analysis at some point.... But your stats makes sense to me.

Sure at some point, but not when the question is "is this pitcher any good?" or "is this pitcher worth having on this team?"

 

[Smed55]

That's actually a pretty fair assesment of how I grade relievers. Although, "how fast they throw" only matters in comparison to career averages (like, if a guy used to throw 95 but is now sitting at 89).

But yea, I agree with that. For relievers I couldn't care less about ERA, W/L, or inherited runners.

Strikeout percentage, walk percentage, BABIP / FIP, GB%, FB%, etc. Those are more valuable tools.

My God, you just don't get it, do you? If a guy has a high ERA, like Hatcher, that means a lot of guys are getting on base against him, and they are scoring. If a guy is allowing inherited runners to score, that means he's coming in and giving up hits to allow those inherited runners to score. if a relief pitcher is getting the lose, that means he gave up the runs that cost his team the win!

SO% means Jack shit, a relief pitcher is brought in to get outs, doesn't matter if every one of them is a ground ball. Ya a guy that gets 10+ strikeouts per 9 innings is a good guy to have, and it looks impressive, but an out is out.

You do realize, that a strikeout only counts as 1 out , just like any other out, don't you? I don't think they give out any bonus points for strikeouts?

I'm sure in your little fantasy baseball league you'd rather have the strikeouts, but were not talking about "fantasy" here, this is big boy baseball, get a grip man!

 

[LASports96]

Relievers ERA LOLOLOL

 

[Villain]

My God, you just don't get it, do you? If a guy has a high ERA, like Hatcher, that means a lot of guys are getting on base against him, and they are scoring. If a guy is allowing inherited runners to score, that means he's coming in and giving up hits to allow those inherited runners to score. if a relief pitcher is getting the lose, that means he gave up the runs that cost his team the win!

Yes, I understand how those stats work. In fact, it is my understanding of those stats which lends me to not care too much about what they mean.

ERA is a quick and dirty stat that gives a half-decent approximation in very large samples of data. In small sample sizes (13 innings for Hatcher, come on), it's just about worthless.

SO% means Jack shit, a relief pitcher is brought in to get outs, doesn't matter if every one of them is a ground ball. Ya a guy that gets 10+ strikeouts per 9 innings is a good guy to have, and it looks impressive, but an out is out.

You do realize, that a strikeout only counts as 1 out , just like any other out, don't you? I don't think they give out any bonus points for strikeouts?

In one game, an out is an out. Over the course of a season, different trends develop and these trends can be a better indicator of success.

I'm sure in your little fantasy baseball league you'd rather have the strikeouts, but were not talking about "fantasy" here, this is big boy baseball, get a grip man!

Actually, wins for pitchers count for points in fantasy, so I do like wins for that. Same goes for saves. Other than that, saves and wins and losses don't mean much to me.

Last year the Dodgers had a bullpen full of former closers with a lot of saves. That bullpen was pathetic.

This year's bullpen is contructed with SABR stats and guess what? It's been one of the best bullpens in baseball.

As of today, the Dodgers bullpen ranks:

1st in WAR
2nd in K% (Best in NL)
2nd in xFIP (Best in NL)
2nd in K/BB (Best in NL)
2nd in SIERA (Best in NL)

And as much as everyone loves to talk about how over-used the bullpen is, only four teams have thrown less relief innings than the Dodgers.