Thoughts on the Lions offensive and defensive lines

[TrustMeIamRight]

Since this site seems to die down whenever I am not arguing with someone -- I figured I would put a post up to see the thoughts of all the Lions fans on this site.

Question is -- Do you think the Offensive and/or Defensive Line will be better in 2013 than last year?

Here is my thoughts (if it was rambling and incoherent, I apologize, as I've slept about 5 hours total in 5 days)

Offensive Line:

I believe the OL will have a chance to be better in upcoming years, but I believe they are going to struggle quite a bit in 2013. With the possibility of 4 new starters and inexperience at every spot, but Rob Sims -- I don't think there is any way around it. I think in the middle of the line -- The Lions are going to be better, especially if Nagy beats out Ravioli. I think we Warford, Nagy and Sims in the middle -- Detroit may actually get some yards running up the middle. I'm worried about the two tackle spots though. I think Reiff will be alright, but will struggle at times as he gets use to the LT position at the NFL level and I really have no idea what to expect out of the RT spot.

I'm still convinced the Lions are going to go after someone to play the LT spot for a year and move Reiff over to RT, and get him a year of experience playing full time.


Defensive Line:

I think this is the wildcard for the Lions. They drafted two athletic freaks in Ansah and Taylor, but we really don't know how they will do in the NFL. They signed Jason Jones, but we really don't know a whole lot about him, other than he too is a monster, like Ansah and Taylor. I think Willie Young is better suited using his speed as a backup, so he can come in when the OL is getting tired and use that to his advantage. I think the middle will be better for the Lions this year IF Fairley is able to stay healthy. I think an extra year of playing together is going to make Suh and Fairley very tough to handle, as you can't double both of them.

Personally, I think the DL is going to be better in 2013 than last year, as they added alot more athleticism and that will help out in the run game from the DE position. I also think you will see quite an upswing in batted balls from our DL, as some of these guys are HUGE that they drafted. It is all going to come down to how quickly Ansah and Taylor adapt to the NFL game though. I think DE on the Lions is probably one of the easiest positions to transition to though, as basically you are just told to get upfield and after the QB.

On a side note -- If Ansah and Taylor struggle adjusting to the NFL -- the DL could be a real weakness on the team. So it is kind of a double edged sword. More athleticism, but much less experience. It is definitely going to be fun to watch though.

 

[jdwills126]

IMO the O-Line could be ok, different from last season in that they may be better run blocking than pass blocking, where the previous O-Lines were much better at pass blocking.

There is a reason teams try not to replace more than 1-2 guys on a line. Continuity matters and I am having a hard time thinking a new LT, RT, Guard, and possible center will not have more blown assignments due to not having experience and chemistry. But they will be more athletic and that counts.

I do not share the belief that Fox is going to be a starter. I also wonder if Raiola can hold off Nagy as I doubt Nagy gets a look at guard due to Warford. But hey Reiff didn't start last season and he was a #1 pick. I still expect a journeymen to get picked up to be the starter at RT.

The D-Line will be better inside and worse from the end spot. Not a lot worse but you can't expect Ansah to be Avril good at this point in his career. If Detroit gets good LB play there should be no real difference though.

 

[Old Lion]

So far it does not look like Nagy is getting many chances at center. There may only be 3 guys changing this year. Raiola definitely done after this year though.

 

[K.J.Ester]

I have been agreeing with you on a lot of things lately Mike, and I do again on this.

I definitely think we will se some break downs on the O-line this year. I always expect any O=lineman to need time to develop. As a rookie, Warford will make his mistakes and though Reiff has had a year to develop, he is now starting his first year as a starter at the toughest spot on the line, so I expect some growing pains from him as well. The lack of continuity will only add to the mistakes.

It will be up to Linehan to recognize this and call a game plan filled with quick release passes to limit the opportunity for QB hits on Stafford. I also feel this makes the running game all that much more important. It is very important for the Lions to get a decent running game going to slow down the pass rush a little. And yes, this means I think it is even that much more important for the Lions to utilize a lead blocker. A FB type of player would help in pass protection as much as it would help with the run game.

The Defense I am actually excited about. (God please let them stay healthy!) Im expecting about 8 sacks from Ansah. The key to this season IMO, is Slay. With Houston, Delmas, and Quinn, I have faith they can do a decent job in coverage. If Slay can hold his own in his rookie year, and make the QB hold the ball an extra second, the D-line will get more sacks as a unit than they have in a couple of years now.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I have been agreeing with you on a lot of things lately Mike, and I do again on this.

I wouldn't openly admit that on these forums. LOL.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I like where both lines are headed.

The o-line will have a learning curve with 3 or 4 new starters, which is to be expected. However, I think a lot of us here are over-blowing the whole situation. These guys are still professional football players- they're not going to get run roughshod over just because they're a new group. Basically, they just have to get a feel for each other and how the guy next to them is going to play.

As far as the players themselves go, we're setting ourselves up for a much improved line going forward. Reiff is replacing Backus, who was a solid LT and very under-rated. That being said, Reiff is a much better athlete, which bodes well his future at LT. Fox is far, far more athletic than Cherilus, although not as strong. He's also apparently a very intellectual player who knows the x's and o's inside and out. He was a guy who was drafted to be a developmental project who would eventually start, and that time has come. At RG Warford should offer a massive upgrade to Peterman, no questions asked. And at center Nagy has a great shot at unseating Raiola as the starter. Imo, that'd be ideal since Nagy is the immediate future at the position, not to mention he's a lot bigger and stronger than Dom.

Our depth is also much improved, imo. On the interior it sounds like Rodney Austin will be the primary back-up at both center and guard, and the brass has been pretty high on him for a while now. Corey Hilliard is a good swing tackle, shouldn't be any issues there. I also like LaAdian Waddle's future on our line. He's got the skill-set to grow into a player who can back-up both guard and both tackle spots, which is ideal in a reserve lineman. Having some quality young reserves is a nice luxury we haven't had in recent years, at least on the interior. Our OT depth has been great, and it is paying off this year with both Backus and Cherilus leaving the roster.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I think the d-line will be flat-out better this year.

We took a big hit on our DT depth with Corey Williams and especially Sammie Lee Hill leaving. But our two starters are the best pair in the league and CJ Mosley should be a nice rotational player. Perhaps we'll still bring Williams back? He's still a free agent and he'll need a job at some point before the season starts.

At DE were in far better shape, imo. KVB was a solid player for a lot of years, but he flat out ran out of gas last year. The speed of the game had passed him by for sure. Ansah should provide a solid upgrade right away with the potential to be a dominate DE. I really like Jason Jones over Avril- not the pure pass-rusher Cliff was, but better all-around DE imo. He can collapse the pocket in a way that Avril never could and he should help Ansah, Suh and the Nerfster rack up more sacks this season.

The depth should be good as well, too. Willie Young needs to step it up after that egg he laid last year, but he knows the system well. Devin Taylor has some real potential as a future starter, but he should at least be a quality rotational guy. Ronnell Lewis is a real wildcard. He didn't get any work at DE last year, but as a situational pass rusher he's got a ton of speed and explosiveness. We'll see if he's able to put his skills to use or not this year.

Overall I think the biggest difference this year at DE is the length of the players- we got much taller and longer-armed this offseason, which should help bat passes and corral RBs.

 

[Mebert]

I think the biggest upgrade the D-line made was the secondary, I am curious to see what this line would have done last year with an average group of corners. I am really hoping with the new height added that we get more balls batted down at the line, Watt has shown how valuable that is.

 

[jayfan]

I believe the OL will have a chance to be better in upcoming years, but I believe they are going to struggle quite a bit in 2013. With the possibility of 4 new starters and inexperience at every spot, but Rob Sims -- I don't think there is any way around it. I think in the middle of the line -- The Lions are going to be better, especially if Nagy beats out Ravioli. I think we Warford, Nagy and Sims in the middle -- Detroit may actually get some yards running up the middle. I'm worried about the two tackle spots though. I think Reiff will be alright, but will struggle at times as he gets use to the LT position at the NFL level and I really have no idea what to expect out of the RT spot.

Well said. Agree.

It will be up to Linehan to recognize this and call a game plan filled with quick release passes to limit the opportunity for QB hits on Stafford.

I'd be surprised if this happens. This offense is what it is at this point. An OC and QB entering their 5th year together aren't going to alter much unless things become desperately dire. Pray that they don't. Short drops/quick routes isn't Stafford's strength.

These guys are still professional football players- they're not going to get run roughshod over just because they're a new group.

But you can't assume that a player is good enough just because he has an NFL contract. Professional players get run roughshod over all the time in this league. There's always inferior and superior, just like at every other level. Our tackles have yet to prove themselves either way. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Read an article in the Free Press or Detroit News this morning after the wife woke me up a 4:30 a.m. to take the screaming baby.

They talked about the ranking of the offensive lines in the NFL. They had Detroit's offensive line ranked 26th overall and with all the new starters, I can't really argue the ranking.

 

[gvsulaker82]

both will struggle this year due to inexperience. The Dline will have even more problem with two awful linebackers behind them.

 

[Quackerjacked]

The offensive line will be better. The big reason is that Peterman was absolutely terrible. I think that at worst Reiff will perform adequately a la Backus. Until last year Hilliard was pushing the crap out of Cherilous for that starting spot. So I'm definitely not worried if Fox beats him out for the spot.

D-Line will also be better. Avril was not nearly as good as his numbers and KVB was bad last year. Throw in the Young doesn't have his finger nearly falling off and the defensive ends are much better. The only worry I have for them is the 3 and 4 defensive ends are much worse.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The offensive line will be better. The big reason is that Peterman was absolutely terrible. I think that at worst Reiff will perform adequately a la Backus. Until last year Hilliard was pushing the crap out of Cherilous for that starting spot. So I'm definitely not worried if Fox beats him out for the spot.

D-Line will also be better. Avril was not nearly as good as his numbers and KVB was bad last year. Throw in the Young doesn't have his finger nearly falling off and the defensive ends are much better. The only worry I have for them is the 3 and 4 defensive ends are much worse.

Don't quote me on this, as I'm going off memory. I read somewhere that Hilliard had like 5 starts in his career and gave up 5 sacks in those games.

I realize a lot of fans overvalue their own team, but saying an OL with possibly 4 new starters is going to be better, you are really reaching. It is not to say that in another year or two, they won't be better, as I think they could be. I think they will struggle this year, unless Detroit game plans accordingly.

As far as the DL -- I think they have the potential to be better, but potential isn't production. Production is what they need out of their DE's. It will all depend on how quickly Ansah and Taylor pick up the NFL game and if Jason Jones can prove he is more than a backup.

I just can't say two rookies and two backups make the DE position better than Avril and KVB.

Out of curiosity -- How many sacks do Lions fans feel they will get out of the DE position in 2013? What about how many sacks combined between Ansah and Taylor?

 

[themuzzer]

Out of curiosity -- How many sacks do Lions fans feel they will get out of the DE position in 2013? What about how many sacks combined between Ansah and Taylor?


You Should make that a poll, pole, Pol? Think we hashed this out on a different thread.

 

[Old Lion]

I'd be surprised if this happens. This offense is what it is at this point. An OC and QB entering their 5th year together aren't going to alter much unless things become desperately dire. Pray that they don't. Short drops/quick routes isn't Stafford's strength.

I understand the logic, but Reggie Bush just let the cat out of the bag saying just that. Much more spread and quick releases like the old NO offense

 

[Microwahevo]

I realize a lot of fans overvalue their own team, but saying an OL with possibly 4 new starters is going to be better, you are really reaching.

It isn't reaching if you're a fan that thinks the o-line was shit last year. Not saying I'm one of them, but going from shit to youth and potential isn't really reaching.

 

[Microwahevo]

I just can't say two rookies and two backups make the DE position better than Avril and KVB.

KVB was garbage last year. He was way too old and way too slow. I'll take Ziggy and Jones over that production any year.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

It isn't reaching if you're a fan that thinks the o-line was shit last year. Not saying I'm one of them, but going from shit to youth and potential isn't really reaching.

Understandable. But all I heard about the line last year was about continuity and how much it means for the offensive line.

It is quite possible that only Rob Sims returns as the starter, while every other position will be a new starter. So is continuity important or is it talent? If it is talent, then why didn't Riley Reiff start last year on the OL?

The OL is the one spot on the Lions that I think will struggle quite a bit in 2013. I think they may be better run blocking than the group last year with the addition of Reiff and Warford, but as a pass first offense -- I'm not quite sure how 4 new starters could equate to a better OL, when they have very minimal experience and continuity will take time.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

KVB was garbage last year. He was way too old and way too slow. I'll take Ziggy and Jones over that production any year.

No argument here about KVB -- I agree he wasn't good last year. On the other hand though -- we have no idea what we will get out Ziggy, Devin Taylor, Jason Jones or Willie Young, as none of them have ever been a full time starter and 2 of them are rookies.

 

[Quackerjacked]

The O line could be worse, I don't think so mostly on how bad Peterman was. This isn't saying that every position will be better, but he was one of the worst lineman in football getting him replaced means that the RG position will be better. Also two of the new guys have been around for at least a year or more.

At the Dline I've been saying for two years that KVB was terrible and saying for more than a year that Avril was extremely overrated. We'll see if I was right, but KVB getting cut and Avril's contract indicates that I probably am.