Thoughts on draft?

[Cincyfan78]

The more I read about Carman, the more I really like the pick. I think Jenkins would have been a bit better, as I think the same reasons can apply to both OT's - questions about the pass protection that would have been mitigated to a point by switching to OG. The kid, Carman, is a physical freak and has the athleticism to be an OT at the NFL level - but I think he could be a top end OG long-term more so than OT - and that's OK.

The difference here, for me, between Jenkins and Carman is that they flipped Jenkins for Carman, and picked up Shelvin and Smith in the process.

They got a pure NT that can really clog things up in a 4-3 look, as well as share NT duties with Reader in a 3-4 look, or allow Reader to slide outside to DE in a run-support role in that base 3-4. Shelvin would have been a 2nd round pick, or early 3rd round, had he played. He likely would have been up there with the kid from Bama. His size and athleticism is really, really good. Of course, my personal preference for DT's have always been more towards guys in that 330-350lbs range. I don't need pass rushers at DT - I need guys who clog up lanes, don't allow middle runs, and free up the DE's and LB's to make plays. When you have 2 guys that command 3 blockers - that's not a bad thing.

Smith just needs time at OT - ECU threw the ball a lot, and put a ton of pressure on that OL last year because their QB stopped running (no backup QB's, and didn't want him getting hurt). They didn't run the ball particularly well, but 2 years ago, they gave UC fits on defense, which is pretty impressive when you look back at UC's defense over the past 2 seasons.

 

[Cincyfan78]

And - for the most part - the consensus grade has been a "B" - which is pretty good. The biggest reach, of course, has been Carman, but Shelvin has been in the mix at a great value as well as Ossai.

 

[Cincyfan78]

One final thought - I wouldn't get too hung up on the phrase "Our guy". Lots of teams use this, especially when trading back. What are you supposed to say? "Well, we really thought Jenkins would fall to us and we could get extra picks, but when the Bears traded up and blew that up we settled on Carman"

I mean, has there ever been a draft pick where a team said they didn't really want the guy they drafted, but another guy who went just before them? We know it happens all the time (guys getting picked just before another team would take them) but this kind of phrase is used often. My guess is, they had Carman up there with Jenkins and the kid from Stanford - and figured they'd at least get 1 of those with a trade back. It happened to be Carman. FWIW - I was never big on the kid from Stanford - not having played 2 years, and not having seen him play since he tore his ACL - a lot of red flags...for me, anyway.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And - for the most part - the consensus grade has been a "B" - which is pretty good. The biggest reach, of course, has been Carman, but Shelvin has been in the mix at a great value as well as Ossai.

Another thing that keeps lowering our grade is Chase, where they are giving us a B+ for him because he was not Sewell. He is an A+ pick regardless of the rest of the draft. Don't get a chance for a guy like Chase very often that high, or should I say low? I think the team did a pretty good job. It was different than my vision originally outside Chase, but I am happy with it personally.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Another thing that keeps lowering our grade is Chase, where they are giving us a B+ for him because he was not Sewell. He is an A+ pick regardless of the rest of the draft. Don't get a chance for a guy like Chase very often that high, or should I say low? I think the team did a pretty good job. It was different than my vision originally outside Chase, but I am happy with it personally.

I agree. I alluded to this earlier, but I don't think I finished the thought...

Everyone knew the Bengals needed OL - but they kept focusing on OT and not taking into account that they had Williams, a former 1st rounder, and Reiff. That meant, no matter who they took, they were likely going to be at OG for at least this year. So, is Sewell (or Slater or Darrisaw) still an A+ draft grade if they all know he's going to be changing position to OG for at least a year? Maybe - and the optics would have looked better, for sure - but getting a guy who offers more versatility with OG/OT and probably better fits what they were looking for in their OL draft pick long-term could have made taking Sewell a bit of a risk. You end up with an Orlando Brown Jr situation, like Bmore did.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I agree. I alluded to this earlier, but I don't think I finished the thought...

Everyone knew the Bengals needed OL - but they kept focusing on OT and not taking into account that they had Williams, a former 1st rounder, and Reiff. That meant, no matter who they took, they were likely going to be at OG for at least this year. So, is Sewell (or Slater or Darrisaw) still an A+ draft grade if they all know he's going to be changing position to OG for at least a year? Maybe - and the optics would have looked better, for sure - but getting a guy who offers more versatility with OG/OT and probably better fits what they were looking for in their OL draft pick long-term could have made taking Sewell a bit of a risk. You end up with an Orlando Brown Jr situation, like Bmore did.

I think that is all pretty accurate. So not that I care how the media grades our draft, but time will tell how our draft should have been graded. I do like the fact they focused on the trenches to begin rebuilding this team though.

 

[jbuck]

remember when we drafted 2 OL early and they both sucked...yea me too

 

[Cincyfan78]

remember when we drafted 2 OL early and they both sucked...yea me too

Yep. Bad picks happen.

The issue wasn't missing on a pick - every team does - it was doubling down on them when it was clear as day neither were going to be good enough.

That's where they screwed up. Teams are going to miss in the draft. There isn't a team out there that drafts 100% up and down year over year. You have good stretches, and when that happens, you have to work to keep them. You have bad stretches, and this is the big key IMO - you have to work quickly to identify the miss and move on. This is where the Bengals screwed up. Either they didn't identify quick enough that these guys weren't good or simply doubled down on their mistake hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with them and get lucky that suddenly it would 'click'.