Thought on Clyde Edward-Helaire

[The Foot]

I love CEH

Loved his gamefilm and running/pass catching style @LSU

He impressed me alot this year.. yes he's a smaller back but he has a thick frame.. his legs r also like tree trunks.

With him being drafted by KC and with his running/pass catching ability, I can easily see CEH being a top 3 fantasy selection for years to come

He realistically has the chance to eventually have a season with 1000 rush yds ,1000 rec yds.. 70+ rec and double digits tds

He is a Westbrook/MJD clone, to the people hating on CEH, you are going to feel awfully silly in the upcoming seasons

Ram I'm with you in CEH. I thought also he was the best back even before he went to kc. I was hoping miami would draft him. The fact that he went to kc just makes me like him that much more

 

[Payton]

Yeah, that kinda what a system player is. And its not like CEH is some rare unicorn who that applies to.

Check out the Shanny/Kubiak system.. When they have great backs(Portis, Davis, Foster) they get league leading production, yearly. When they have a "system" back, they still get good numbers, but the guy ain't worth a shit outside of the system (Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Doug Slaton, everyone in SF right now)
In Reid's case, the exceptional guys are Shady and Hunt, to some extent Charles but he was in the skids, the also rans, Westbrook, Staley, Dam. Williams, S. Ware, even C West wasnt terrible.

This isnt some new CYA theory..its pretty prevalent throughout the leagues recent history

No kidding... ?

Let me ask you a different way. Is there literally ANYTHING CEH can do with the Chiefs to prove that your assessment of him is wrong?

Like I said, it looks like you have put yourself in a win/win situation. If he stumbles? “See, I told you he’s nothing special!”.... If he shines? “Well, he’s STILL nothing special! It’s the system!”...

Good debate strategy! Kudos!

 

[Payton]

Actually it's quite relevant..... if you think Reid turns dust into diamonds. I'm not sure how you don't see that.

I wouldn't have the same position on him if he want to the bears or the jets or the dolphins.....extremely relevant.

I made it very clear pre draft what I thought of him. So yes my stance makes 100% sense.

I do notice that you didn't answer my question. You typed ALOT. But dodged it.

Exactly.... and now we have Mahomes at qb and one of the most explosive offenses there ever was. It's not rocket science to see where my stance comes from.

My point isn’t that “beneficial systems” don’t exist. My point was that there is now no path to ever admit the assessment was wrong.

 

[Payton]

Let me ask you this ..if Swift and CEH swapped landing spots, which one would you be high on?

Swift, of course... What does that prove? There were five or so backs going into this draft that we’re pretty much a “Pick your poison”... Swift was actually MY top back pre-draft...

However, I loved what I saw from CEH last season as well... There have just been some opinions on the guy that I find head-scratching... Everyone wants to crap on the guy because of how good LSU was, but they weren’t playing little sisters of the poor every Saturday either!

And yeah, still take MASSIVE offense to this, “Well I watched ‘tape’! Don’t show me a highlight reel, because of course his highlights are going to look good! I saw ‘TAPE’!!!” .. Highlight tape is meant to show the qualities that folks here say he doesn’t have... His highlights are NOT a long reel of him running through holes you can drive a truck through... They show quickness (Which can offset 4.5 speed btw), elusiveness and yes (to refute an earlier claim in this thread) DOWNFIELD pass route running...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Swift, of course... What does that prove? There were five or so backs going into this draft that we’re pretty much a “Pick your poison”... Swift was actually MY top back pre-draft...

However, I loved what I saw from CEH last season as well... There have just been some opinions on the guy that I find head-scratching... Everyone wants to crap on the guy because of how good LSU was, but they weren’t playing little sisters of the poor every Saturday either!

And yeah, still take MASSIVE offense to this, “Well I watched ‘tape’! Don’t show me a highlight reel, because of course his highlights are going to look good! I saw ‘TAPE’!!!” .. Highlight tape is meant to show the qualities that folks here say he doesn’t have... His highlights are NOT a long reel of him running through holes you can drive a truck through... They show quickness (Which can offset 4.5 speed btw), elusiveness and yes (to refute an earlier claim in this thread) DOWNFIELD pass route running...

We’ll put you down as a believer then.

 

[Payton]

We’ll put you down as a believer then.

Well, I know I can’t say this without getting accused of “recency bias”, but enjoyed watching him and Etienne going back and forth in the NC game... Was more interested in watching Etienne going in, but came away very impressed with CEH...

 

[TREFF]

No kidding... ?

Let me ask you a different way. Is there literally ANYTHING CEH can do with the Chiefs to prove that your assessment of him is wrong?

Like I said, it looks like you have put yourself in a win/win situation. If he stumbles? “See, I told you he’s nothing special!”.... If he shines? “Well, he’s STILL nothing special! It’s the system!”...

Good debate strategy! Kudos!

Is there a reason you feel the need to be a sarcastic smartass in a futile attempt to assert dominance in the conversation??

In fact there is a way we can be proven wrong, CEH does better than what a typical "system" back would be expected to, thus proving he's not a system back, he was worth a first round pick and we misjudged him.

But it isnt about being right or wrong, we've all been proven dead wrong before, will again, we don't have fragile egos.

My point isn’t that “beneficial systems” don’t exist. My point was that there is now no path to ever admit the assessment was wrong.

Beneficial systems do exist, the proof is everywhere

 

[eaglesnut]

It's incredibly easy to play RB for the best QB and best OC in college.

Luckily for CEH he landed with a comparable combo in Kansas City.

 

[Payton]

Is there a reason you feel the need to be a sarcastic smartass in a futile attempt to assert dominance in the conversation??

No sarcasm in what you quoted... I mean it. Any debate coach would be proud!

Sorry, but with all due respect, you seem to be a fella who likes to dominate the discussion himself... I am not trying to “Assert” any “Dominance”, but am pointing out how you planted a flag that is borderline impossible to dislodge, esp since you are your own judge and jury here.

Seriously, no hard feelings here, but yeah, I’m kinda searching for some metrics here, as we’ve been back and forth on CEH quite a bit! Just became amused at how it evolved.

In fact there is a way we can be proven wrong, CEH does better than what a typical "system" back would be expected to, thus proving he's not a system back, he was worth a first round pick and we misjudged him.

So, we compare him to “Typical System back”? Who? How? Or will you just know it when you go back and “Watch the tape”?

But it isnt about being right or wrong, we've all been proven dead wrong before, will again, we don't have fragile egos.


Beneficial systems do exist, the proof is everywhere

Again, no one is arguing they don’t. Lev Bell... Perfect example IMO of what CEH could end up being in fantasy IMO... Yes, being a bit provocative, but honestly don’t think Bell was any “super talent” and I don’t know if you disagree or not, just throwing him out as the most glaring recent example IMO.

 

[TREFF]

No sarcasm in what you quoted... I mean it. Any debate coach would be proud!

Sorry, but with all due respect, you seem to be a fella who likes to dominate the discussion himself... I am not trying to “Assert” any “Dominance”, but am pointing out how you planted a flag that is borderline impossible to dislodge, esp since you are your own judge and jury here.

Seriously, no hard feelings here, but yeah, I’m kinda searching for some metrics here, as we’ve been back and forth on CEH quite a bit! Just became amused at how it evolved.



So, we compare him to “Typical System back”? Who? How? Or will you just know it when you go back and “Watch the tape”?




Again, no one is arguing they don’t. Lev Bell... Perfect example IMO of what CEH could end up being in fantasy IMO... Yes, being a bit provocative, but honestly don’t think Bell was any “super talent” and I don’t know if you disagree or not, just throwing him out as the most glaring recent example IMO.

I misread your second comment, my bad.

But your twisting words in some weird attempt to catch us speaking out of both sides of our mouths when that's not at all what we're saying.
What's better than a system back? Have a better season than Damien Williams, average more yards per carry, score more TD's, get 1200+ yards rushing, or 1700 yards from scrimmage.. Its not rocket science. You know the difference between Olandis Gary and Terrell Davis when it stares you in the face. Just becuase you can't quantify it, doesn't mean it isnt right there

 

[Payton]

I misread your second comment, my bad.

But your twisting words in some weird attempt to catch us speaking out of both sides of our mouths when that's not at all what we're saying.
What's better than a system back? Have a better season than Damien Williams, average more yards per carry, score more TD's, get 1200+ yards rushing, or 1700 yards from scrimmage.. Its not rocket science. You know the difference between Olandis Gary and Terrell Davis when it stares you in the face. Just becuase you can't quantify it, doesn't mean it isnt right there

Sure... Clearly we need live sports other than NASCAR and Bundesliga to occupy us at this point...

 

[TREFF]

Sure... Clearly we need live sports other than NASCAR and Bundesliga to occupy us at this point...

Well we can certainly agree on that, whatever the he bundesliga is

 

[Barilko]

Well we can certainly agree on that, whatever the he bundesliga is

ill give ya hint Treffer it aint Hockey...

 

[Barilko]

what i do find funny is CEH is up to 6 pages and soon 7

 

[averagejoe]

Bundesliga

Was that an episode of Married with Children?

 

[TREFF]

ill give ya hint Treffer it aint Hockey...

Well no, cuz he'd have said Brian Boytano

 

[TREFF]

Oh, its friggin soccer..figures

 

[Payton]

Was that an episode of Married with Children?

The laughable thing is that Fantasy Sports Radio’s gambling talk people have been talking ad nauseum about Bundesliga... Desperate to put money on SOMETHING I guess?

 

[Payton]

Well no, cuz he'd have said Brian Boytano

Ah, so we’re going to continue with the ‘tude then? Okeedoke ..

1). Blackhawks IN...

2). The joke is better if you at least spell the guy’s (loosely defined) name right.

 

[Payton]

Oh, its friggin soccer..figures

You should watch some “tape”!