The Walking Dead

[OutlawImmortal]

It's been a show about character development from episode 1, season 1.

Well yes, but even their focus (character development) isn't all that special to me. That's why I say it's just entertainment, nothing more nothing less. It's far too easy to nitpick a show like this. It's just as you said, even the premise doesn't make sense, so what's the point?

 

[chf]

Well yes, but even their focus (character development) isn't all that special to me. That's why I say it's just entertainment, nothing more nothing less. It's far too easy to nitpick a show like this. It's just as you said, even the premise doesn't make sense, so what's the point?

Because they spent the entire episode ping-ponging back and forth between pov's about why lives matter. Why they're doing what they're doing in going up against Neegan's crew, and who should go and who should stay behind.

The lesbian confessing was about the relationships left behind, and the chance that that might be permanent.

I get why you just want to watch the show for the action, but it's never been a show about the action, it's always been a show about what it means to be human.

The lesbian's scene in the SUV was about that.

Just like the scenes on why Maggie's life matters more than say Glenn's does.

 

[Chef99]

Eugenita. You heard it here first.

If that happens and Eugenita goes on a double date with Richonne, that's when I quit watching the show.

 

[beardown07]

If that happens and Eugenita goes on a double date with Richonne, that's when I quit watching the show.

Mark my words. Eugene is gonna hit that. Eugenita. Bank on it.

 

[calsnowskier]

If that happens and Eugenita goes on a double date with Richonne, that's when I quit watching the show.

Rosita would lose her head if that ever happened...

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Because they spent the entire episode ping-ponging back and forth between pov's about why lives matter. Why they're doing what they're doing in going up against Neegan's crew, and who should go and who should stay behind.

The lesbian confessing was about the relationships left behind, and the chance that that might be permanent.

I get why you just want to watch the show for the action, but it's never been a show about the action, it's always been a show about what it means to be human.

The lesbian's scene in the SUV was about that.

Just like the scenes on why Maggie's life matters more than say Glenn's does.

I see what you're saying and I see what they were trying to do, it just seemed out of place to me. You are in the middle of a war with a dangerous group, just seemed like the wrong time to be thinking about that to me.

It seems like they are trying to find the balance between action and characters this half-season. I'm sure you've seen some posts here mentioning "filler", those "filler" episodes are basically character driven episodes. I believe people watch the show for interactions/wars between groups, zombie hordes, searching for supplies, creating a better home etc.

The arc that's regarded as the worst by some is the sickness arc when the group was in the prison. That was mainly a character driven arc, luckily we got the governor's arc afterwards, which was fine because the Governor was a great character, on the other hand I doubt many people care all that much about the Doctor and Tara's relationship. Most of the time on the Walking Dead we get 1 action episode followed by a few weeks of character-driven episodes, this season I see them trying to do both, now whether that is because they have a ton of good material to work (Negan) I don't know but I feel like the overall quality of each episode has gone up because of it.

 

[chf]

I see what you're saying and I see what they were trying to do, it just seemed out of place to me. You are in the middle of a war with a dangerous group, just seemed like the wrong time to be thinking about that to me.

It seems like they are trying to find the balance between action and characters this half-season. I'm sure you've seen some posts here mentioning "filler", those "filler" episodes are basically character driven episodes. I believe people watch the show for interactions/wars between groups, zombie hordes, searching for supplies, creating a better home etc.

The arc that's regarded as the worst by some is the sickness arc when the group was in the prison. That was mainly a character driven arc, luckily we got the governor's arc afterwards, which was fine because the Governor was a great character, on the other hand I doubt many people care all that much about the Doctor and Tara's relationship. Most of the time on the Walking Dead we get 1 action episode followed by a few weeks of character-driven episodes, this season I see them trying to do both, now whether that is because they have a ton of good material to work (Negan) I don't know but I feel like the overall quality of each episode has gone up because of it.

The balance is important, but I'd suggest that if you were to write up all the seasons with a stopwatch, the 'talking' parts would stay pretty consistent. The most memorable episodes (I agree!) are the ones where the tension is the highest, where shvt is going down.

However, I'd also suggest that what makes those scenes so memorable is because we care about the characters. We identify with them as human beings.

The show does a fairly good job of not having too many disposable characters (Star Trek's red shirts), that we don't know anything about, and are just there to die to make us feel danger as they die.

In fact, the some of the show's strongest characters (Daryll, Carol) were elevated out of the comics BECAUSE people identified with them on an emotional level. We don't care so much about Carol's triumph is her abuse isn't played out in 'filler' material. We don't care so much about Daryll's change and success, unless we have a lot of yak-yakking over the course of the season slowly revealing Daryll's secret's and his relationship with his brother and family.

The underlying awesomeness of this latest episode is that it asks the question, 'By pre-emptively killing Neegan's crew, what makes our heroes any different from the Governor?'

That's an open question, and only by 'filler' material, will we get to see it.

So I partially agree with you. Shows that focus on characters in high danger arenas (cops, soldiers, criminals etc) are so compelling because they ask us 'how would I handle that?'

But it's the rest of the 'filler' that makes it meaningful.

What separates Goodfellas or The Godfather with generic cops n robbers actioners with say Sylvester Stallone?

The 'filler.'

I guess the question is, does TWD do filler well?

I think it does. LOTS of people strenuously disagree.

 

[juliansteed]

Nah he was just saying if it was gonna be them to get killed it was gonna be the saviors.

Basically saying they acted before the Saviors would have a chance to do this to them.

Yeah I posted that before I saw The Talking Dead and the actor confirmed what you're saying on The Talking Dead.

 

[Comeds]

I think the base they hit was just a satellite base....it would have been cool if the filmakers/writers could have subtly hinted at this.....

 

[juliansteed]

This might be one of those "nitpicking" moments as it's obviously being done to advance the plot, but does it not seem strange to anyone that Tara and Heath are still going on their supply run that was planned prior to the deal with Hilltop being made? I'd say one or both of them are definitely goners.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think the base they hit was just a satellite base....it would have been cool if the filmakers/writers could have subtly hinted at this.....

At this point, our group doesn't know it was just an outpost. One of them even asked which of the dead were Negan.

 

[Payton]

The balance is important, but I'd suggest that if you were to write up all the seasons with a stopwatch, the 'talking' parts would stay pretty consistent. The most memorable episodes (I agree!) are the ones where the tension is the highest, where shvt is going down.

However, I'd also suggest that what makes those scenes so memorable is because we care about the characters. We identify with them as human beings.

The show does a fairly good job of not having too many disposable characters (Star Trek's red shirts), that we don't know anything about, and are just there to die to make us feel danger as they die.

In fact, the some of the show's strongest characters (Daryll, Carol) were elevated out of the comics BECAUSE people identified with them on an emotional level. We don't care so much about Carol's triumph is her abuse isn't played out in 'filler' material. We don't care so much about Daryll's change and success, unless we have a lot of yak-yakking over the course of the season slowly revealing Daryll's secret's and his relationship with his brother and family.

The underlying awesomeness of this latest episode is that it asks the question, 'By pre-emptively killing Neegan's crew, what makes our heroes any different from the Governor?'

That's an open question, and only by 'filler' material, will we get to see it.

So I partially agree with you. Shows that focus on characters in high danger arenas (cops, soldiers, criminals etc) are so compelling because they ask us 'how would I handle that?'

But it's the rest of the 'filler' that makes it meaningful.

What separates Goodfellas or The Godfather with generic cops n robbers actioners with say Sylvester Stallone?

The 'filler.'

I guess the question is, does TWD do filler well?

I think it does. LOTS of people strenuously disagree.

Agree with pretty much all of this (Surprisingly... Right C? ).

i think its the episodes where it isn't necessarily "filler", but just pure character development that might explain some things about a character's background and how they got to where they are, but contain zero plot advancement that tend to bug me a bit...

It just seems in those rare cases that they could maybe find a more creative way to do it rather than have the entire show grind to a halt to show us how Morgan became a pacifist, etc... JMO.

 

[Chef99]

Agree with pretty much all of this (Surprisingly... Right C? ).

i think its the episodes where it isn't necessarily "filler", but just pure character development that might explain some things about a character's background and how they got to where they are, but contain zero plot advancement that tend to bug me a bit...

It just seems in those rare cases that they could maybe find a more creative way to do it rather than have the entire show grind to a halt to show us how Morgan became a pacifist, etc... JMO.

Good post that I agree and disagree with. I was thinking the same thing about the filler vs. character development part. I think movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas had a lot more going for them to be distinguished as high quality productions... @chf , I get your point, but I think that's simplifying it a bit too much.

I know I'm in the minority here on this part, but I loved the Morgan episode. Well thought out, well written and great acting, imo.

Differences of opinion...that's what makes the world go 'round, folks

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Agree with pretty much all of this (Surprisingly... Right C? ).

i think its the episodes where it isn't necessarily "filler", but just pure character development that might explain some things about a character's background and how they got to where they are, but contain zero plot advancement that tend to bug me a bit...

It just seems in those rare cases that they could maybe find a more creative way to do it rather than have the entire show grind to a halt to show us how Morgan became a pacifist, etc... JMO.

I agree with you as well, but at the same time perhaps I wasn't giving TWD enough credit. I have the habit of comparing TWD to what I consider to be the best shows (BB/BCS, Vikings, GoT), but when I compare it to the average show on television it does do a lot of things at an above average level.

 

[Payton]

Good post that I agree and disagree with. I was thinking the same thing about the filler vs. character development part. I think movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas had a lot more going for them to be distinguished as high quality productions... @chf , I get your point, but I think that's simplifying it a bit too much.

I know I'm in the minority here on this part, but I loved the Morgan episode. Well thought out, well written and great acting, imo.

Differences of opinion...that's what makes the world go 'round, folks

Well, I'd say we have to figure that they intend to keep Morgan around for awhile after devoting that much time to his transformation from what we saw in "Clear" to the Buddhist Monk we see now... Of course, I would have thought so with Beth as well, but they offed her just as she was maybe getting interesting...

 

[beardown07]

Well, I'd say we have to figure that they intend to keep Morgan around for awhile after devoting that much time to his transformation from what we saw in "Clear" to the Buddhist Monk we see now... Of course, I would have thought so with Beth as well, but they offed her just as she was maybe getting interesting...

Oh Bethie...

 

[chf]

Agree with pretty much all of this (Surprisingly... Right C? ).

i think its the episodes where it isn't necessarily "filler", but just pure character development that might explain some things about a character's background and how they got to where they are, but contain zero plot advancement that tend to bug me a bit...

It just seems in those rare cases that they could maybe find a more creative way to do it rather than have the entire show grind to a halt to show us how Morgan became a pacifist, etc... JMO.

I love that the show doesn't go by an episode formula. So many shows do. You can set your watch by it. Murder at the start, speechifying by the main cops. Reveal on the bad guys. Action time. Winner, Denoument. Rinse, repeat.

The show this year where Morgan goes all kung-fu was really different, but I thought it worked great. Now we know WHY Morgan is being what appears as a giant raging A-hole about the morals. Because we had that show. Without it, we'd be just taking it on faith, or grousing about poor writing or character motivation.

But the bald dude is what saved Morgan. He'd given up. So he has a lot riding on following that philosophy.

There's good stuff to come in the future with a collision between Morgan and Rick. (or Morgan and Carol) All that groundwork was set up in those slow moving no action episodes.

Again, I give these writers and directors a lot of rope. They have a plan.

 

[chf]

Good post that I agree and disagree with. I was thinking the same thing about the filler vs. character development part. I think movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas had a lot more going for them to be distinguished as high quality productions... @chf , I get your point, but I think that's simplifying it a bit too much.

I know I'm in the minority here on this part, but I loved the Morgan episode. Well thought out, well written and great acting, imo.

Differences of opinion...that's what makes the world go 'round, folks

Well I wasn't making a direct correlation on quality between Godfather and TWD. I WAS going for the idea that TWD attempts to use good story-telling techniques, that separate it from a lot of what's on TV. So TWD is closer on the spectrum than a generic Stallone actioner.

Hell, TWD ain't no 'The Wire,' but it's trying to use those same techniques so as to have us identify with characters and to build tension.

Kinda funny to mention The Wire, because it's one of my favorite shows ever, and I was trying to get a friend who likes good stuff to watch it, and he was grousing about how slowly season 1 was developing. He was bored.

I kept telling him, 'Just wait!' They're just setting up the characters. WAIIIT!

I've had other people react the same with GOT.

People want their payoffs quick I guess.

 

[chf]

I agree with you as well, but at the same time perhaps I wasn't giving TWD enough credit. I have the habit of comparing TWD to what I consider to be the best shows (BB/BCS, Vikings, GoT), but when I compare it to the average show on television it does do a lot of things at an above average level.

I'm a big fan of Vikings, and it has entire story arcs (so far this season!) where not much happens.

But they've earned enough credit with me to be optimistic that the payoff will be coming.

Ragnar is sick. Floki is tied up. Oldest son is communing with nature. C'mon, make something happen!

But I know that the show will have a payoff that makes wading through these early episodes worth it.

 

[Chef99]

Well I wasn't making a direct correlation on quality between Godfather and TWD. I WAS going for the idea that TWD attempts to use good story-telling techniques, that separate it from a lot of what's on TV. So TWD is closer on the spectrum than a generic Stallone actioner.

Hell, TWD ain't no 'The Wire,' but it's trying to use those same techniques so as to have us identify with characters and to build tension.

Kinda funny to mention The Wire, because it's one of my favorite shows ever, and I was trying to get a friend who likes good stuff to watch it, and he was grousing about how slowly season 1 was developing. He was bored.

I kept telling him, 'Just wait!' They're just setting up the characters. WAIIIT!

I've had other people react the same with GOT.

People want their payoffs quick I guess.

"An' all dis time I thought I wuz deep..."