The Return of the 3-3-5

[bbwvfan]

Is West Virginia returning to the 3-3-5 defense? An investigation

Coaches have denied any and all claims, but defensive lineman Kyle Rose ripped the wound open Thursday night by telling Blue & Gold News’ Michael Carvelli that the Mountaineers had, indeed, begun to install more of a 3-3-5 scheme — this a drastic departure from the traditional 3-4 defense of the last two seasons.

Can't wait….

 

[GoldRusher]

 

[mad2mc]

A defense that may work every four years. Why hire Bradley?

 

[DCWV4life]

Finally!!! It's not going to be the traditional 3-3-5 so why all the belly aching....this defense in our teams history performed as well if not better than anything else we have run.

 

[bbwvfan]

As many of you know, I live in Syracuse, NY. One of my friends in town is a former SU player and coach. He is one of SU's all-time great LB's, and was on Coach Robinson and Marrone's staff as a LB coach. He just recently left the coaching profession. I have had many a discussion with him about the 3-3-5, and there is a reason we have seen kids struggle to learn it.

 

[GoldRusher]

I'm ok with running a defensive set with the 3-3-5 and some of its principals as I am the dime,nickel ect.. But as the base defense after hiring Gibby to keep the continuity and to help keep things the same and simple for the players as far as terminology ect..? Doesn't make alot of sense.

That said at this point after watching flag football defense the last 2 years I don't care what we run as long as it gets offenses off the field.

 

[DCWV4life]

I wonder what the coaches think about Rose spilling te beans?

WVU scoring defense Rank

07-18.1 (8th)
08-17 (11th)
09- 22 (31st)
10- 13.5 (3rd)
11- 26 (61)

Arizona
12 35.3 (104)
13 24.2 (39)


BB your friend has probably forgotten more football than I know, but this does not support a defense that is that hard to graspe by players.

I do agree rusher and complete flip to the 3-3-5 would not make much sense with the reasons for hires given in the media. I think this defense with the personnel we have is just looking for that extra versatility. It's slipping my mind at the moment but some teams are already doing this with aspects of the 3-3-5...I wanted to say Bama or someone like that, but I honestly can't remember.

But as we all agree we don't care what they call it, just stop somebody!

 

[Jeighmonee]

If Tom Bradley agreed to come on board with the understanding that we may be transitioning to the Stack, that should tell you everything you need to know about the scheme. He's one of the best defensive minds in the game, so if he's OK with it, I think it's safe to assume that it's a fundamentally sound defense. We've been recruiting better athletes lately, so I'll be curious to see how they perform. And as for the learning curve, it's up to the coaches to make the players understand, and not throw more at them than they can handle. We had been told that one of the advantages of the 3-4 was that it was easy to learn...how did that work out for us?

I honestly don't care what scheme we run; they all have their strengths and weaknesses. As long as we have a good gameplan in place, avoid injuries, and do the little things right (run to the ball, take good angles,stay deeper than the deepest, wrap up, etc.) we'll be ok.

 

[ralphiewvu]

They should have never left the 3-3-5. Sure we hated it in the BE, but in theory it seems the 3-3-5 may have some success vs the pass happy B12 teams.

 

[WVUDAD]

From what I saw during Casteel's run as DC, once installed, the 3-3-5 defense did its job, and did it well. The last two years defense has been a joke, hopefully we will see a new thought process about defense from the HC, which I think is one reason Casteel left, Holgorsen didnt seem to care AT ALL, about defense. HOPEFULLY, Luck sat him down and had a chat about what being the HC means on a football TEAM. The once every four years BS spouted by some is pure BS, as shown by DC's post above.

 

[mad2mc]

Reading an article on Gibson, he stated that his version of the 3-3-5 is going to have 3 down linemen, 4 linebackers, and 4 DBS. How is this a 3-3-5? Or is the hybrid a traditional 3-4?

Hope this quote from the article in WVUSports.com works:

“We changed what we called our Buck linebacker to Will linebacker, so really that’s the only difference we have,” Gibson said recently. “When we line up, people aren’t going to say, ‘oh, wow, they’re different.’ No. You’re still going to see three down linemen. You are going to see four linebackers and four DBs. We’re going to do some things that are a little different to make our scheme better – things we were trying to get to during the middle of the year but injuries forced us to keep starting over.”

 

[bbwvfan]

I wonder what the coaches think about Rose spilling te beans?

WVU scoring defense Rank

07-18.1 (8th)
08-17 (11th)
09- 22 (31st)
10- 13.5 (3rd)
11- 26 (61)

Arizona
12 35.3 (104)
13 24.2 (39)


BB your friend has probably forgotten more football than I know, but this does not support a defense that is that hard to graspe by players.

I do agree rusher and complete flip to the 3-3-5 would not make much sense with the reasons for hires given in the media. I think this defense with the personnel we have is just looking for that extra versatility. It's slipping my mind at the moment but some teams are already doing this with aspects of the 3-3-5...I wanted to say Bama or someone like that, but I honestly can't remember.

But as we all agree we don't care what they call it, just stop somebody!

DC,

Did you assess Zona's opponents last year? I think there may be a reason the scoring defense showed huge improvements.

In the 11 years Casteel and his 3-3-5 defense went bowling, they held few of their opponents under 30 points and/or under 400 yards.

 

[DCWV4life]

DC,

Did you assess Zona's opponents last year? I think there may be a reason the scoring defense showed huge improvements.

In the 11 years Casteel and his 3-3-5 defense went bowling, they held few of their opponents under 30 points and/or under 400 yards.

Point is they showed improvement and by the end of the season they held the number three offense(Oregon) in the country to 16 pts...they had bad games as well without a doubt. Their opponents did not really change much from 2012 to 2013. You just don't improve 2 TDs over one season by luck.

3-3-5 did have the stats you say, but it also helped us win 3 BCS titles and kept people out of the endzone the last 5 years here. Did enough to help us win and that is really all we need. Look at Nehlan with the 4-3 for 15 years it either didn't get us to a bowl or did and lost it but the 4-3 is still a viable defense.

I bet if you look at most defensive performances from regular season to bowl game a influx of scoring would be pretty common 1. Your usually playing a better opponent 2 they have a month to prepare

Regardless of history we need this years team to improve and if the coaches think these slight changes to D will help then more power.

 

[bbwvfan]

Hard to say the defense helped WVU win 3 BCS bowls when it gave up the kind of numbers it did. I think those wins had more to do with the production of the offense. The Fiesta was impressive...

WVU won exactly one bowl game under Casteel's era when Pat White wasn't the QB.

Coincidence?

Big time offenses are the norm in the Big 12, so any argument that the 3-3-5 was going up against better competition in their bowl games seems weak to me.

 

[DCWV4life]

Hard to say the defense helped WVU win 3 BCS bowls when it gave up the kind of numbers it did. I think those wins had more to do with the production of the offense. The Fiesta was impressive...

WVU won exactly one bowl game under Casteel's era when Pat White wasn't the QB.

Coincidence?

Big time offenses are the norm in the Big 12, so any argument that the 3-3-5 was going up against better competition in their bowl games seems weak to me.

Did the other team score more than us..no...so the d played it part in helping us win those bowl games.

Second half against Georgia what did the offense do..not muchterry were held to 7 pts in the second half...D was on the field most of the second half.

Oklahoma in 08 led the nation in scoring at 51 pts we held them to 28. 15 thru 3

clemson the game was completely turned around by the defense, that was a TD for TD game until the D stuffed them at the line and went 99 the other way. Last three quarters of that game they gave up 13 pts to the number 6 offense that year.

Not sure what your last statement means, the whole idea of bowl games is to match up better competition. I never compared playing one bowl game to a whole season in the big 12....the 3-3-5 was going against better competition than it was used during the regular season in the big east and competed very well in my opinion. Even beating the number one offense in the country from our current conference. Plus I said prep time and better competition. We all know this is a game of many variables. One could even argue that the d gave up more yards and points was because of the offenses productivity since they were on the field so often.

If your arguement is we should not use the 3-3-5 because it gave up a lot of yards and points in games we won, how can you even defend the 3-4?lol.

I would have to think that with the more talented players we are recruiting the 3-3-5 would only improve, so maybe all those points and yards we gave up was not because of scheme but because of BE talent going against the better talent of the top teir conf's.

 

[DCWV4life]

One more thing in the biggest game in our schools history the 3-3-5 showed up, where was the offense?

I still think the defense was there for us more than it let us down...

 

[bbwvfan]

I believe the 3-3-5 is used by all schools in situations. But, not used by many as a base.

Coach Scott Shafer was a really solid DC before he became SU's HC. He was the DC at Stanford before Rich hired him for one year at Michigan and forced him to run the 3-3-5. Rich fired him after one year when the defense fell to #67. Rich brought Greg Robinson in to be the DC. Coach Robinson had won Super Bowls and Rose Bowls while DC for Denver and Texas respectively. Under Coach Robinson, the UofM defense became worse each season falling to #110 his last year there.

Did these coaches lose it at UofM?

Coach Shafer was hired as the DC at Syracuse following his one year stint at UofM. He improved the SU defense from #101 to #37 in one year.

Coach Robinson was hired at Texas last year after the BYU game, and made immediate improvements to their defense's performance for the remainder of the season.

Coincidence?

My point about comparing bowl performances under Casteel, is that so many WVU fans want to celebrate the good old days when WVU actually played some defense. IMO, that is no different than looking back and celebrating three straight 9-4 seasons. Or… regularly competing for BE championships. The stats look great… the accomplishments look great… because the competition was weak. When Casteel faced a potent offense, it did little better than WVU's 3-4 the past two years. One season when the BE actually had a couple of NFL type QB's and WR's, the WVU pass defense was ranked #109.

WVU is facing this kind of talent on a regular basis today.

 

[mad2mc]

One more thing in the biggest game in our schools history the 3-3-5 showed up, where was the offense?

I still think the defense was there for us more than it let us down...

You really believed that the 3 BCS wins we're due to the 3-3-5? While you can say a superior Mountaineer offense should have rolled Pitt, I don't believe it was the 3-3-5 that kept us in the game. Pitt's offense was not good at all that season.

It took a special team fake punt to win that game as the offense got shut down and the D couldn't stop anything in the second half.

It sounds as if this is going to be a 3-3-5 in name.

 

[DCWV4life]

You really believed that the 3 BCS wins we're due to the 3-3-5? While you can say a superior Mountaineer offense should have rolled Pitt, I don't believe it was the 3-3-5 that kept us in the game. Pitt's offense was not good at all that season.

It took a special team fake punt to win that game as the offense got shut down and the D couldn't stop anything in the second half.

It sounds as if this is going to be a 3-3-5 in name.

Let's not get words mixed up here, no where did I say the 3-3-5 alone was the reason we won those games

I am a person that thinks no one side of the ball is responsible for wins or losses.

How could you say the defense did not keep us in the game, our offense was horrible that game and never even sniffed the end zone after the first. Pitts o might have been bad but the defense showed up and did their part. If your going to blame that loss you definitely can't point to the defensive side of the ball.

And you could not be more wrong about the defense not being able to stop anything in the second half..they only gave up 14 pts (yards so what) while our offense struggled all but one drive after halftime. Plus what about the 3 turnovers that helped us take that big lead and keep it?

For WVU at the time the 3-3-5 did what it needed to do to help the TEAM win.

95-36 Is not just luck and offense.

 

[mad2mc]

Let's not get words mixed up here, no where did I say the 3-3-5 alone was the reason we won those games

I am a person that thinks no one side of the ball is responsible for wins or losses.

How could you say the defense did not keep us in the game, our offense was horrible that game and never even sniffed the end zone after the first. Pitts o might have been bad but the defense showed up and did their part. If your going to blame that loss you definitely can't point to the defensive side of the ball.

And you could not be more wrong about the defense not being able to stop anything in the second half..they only gave up 14 pts (yards so what) while our offense struggled all but one drive after halftime. Plus what about the 3 turnovers that helped us take that big lead and keep it?

For WVU at the time the 3-3-5 did what it needed to do to help the TEAM win.

95-36 Is not just luck and offense.

Didn't believe that the D was the reason for the loss versus Pitt.

When the offense shows up, the D played better. These 2 games are great illustration of this. Against a bad Pitt offense, the D was able to hold them to 2 FG; however, the offense could not score to save their lives.

Your right about the Sugar Bowl. I should have said that when the offense started to slow down, in the 2nd quarter, so did the defense. The defense, starting in the 2nd quarter, allowed Georgia to score 5 out of 7 times (3/3 in the 2nd, 1/2 in the 3rd, and 1/2 in the 4th). This after shutting down Georgia in the first quarter, causing 2 punts and forcing 2 turnovers. If it wasn't for the success of the fake punt, I believe Georgia had a great chance of winning that game.

This defense seems to make an average TE an All American. It appears, at least to me, that the flats become exposed by RBs and slots. The past 2 seasons was bad due to the experience on that side of the ball, depth, and coaching (DeForest for 1 season). It seemed that we were excited early last season with some of the progress made with experience and Patterson's leadership. It tailed off in the end but I was satisfied with the experience this side of the ball was getting and looking forward to what can be done with the talent brought in. As I mentioned earlier, Gibson appears to be calling this a 3-3-5, but we will soon see.