The Quarterback Position

[zeke2829]

Interesting article on possible offseason restructures/cuts and how it could possibly affect our draft


Salary Capping the St. Louis Rams' Offseason - Turf Show Times

 

[Retroram52]

Good article Zeke2829. Finnegan is definitely done and Dahl should be. That would give some space to resign Saffold. Depending on the draft, Wells could be done as well.

 

[SJ76]

The St. Louis Rams currently have the lowest available cap space in the NFL
($17,718). Unless measures are taken by the Rams to alleviate the cap space
situation, it's likely they'll remain tight up against the cap in 2014.

This is whaty stood out to me. I'd say they have some work to do.

 

[Smed55]

Yes SJ, and a lot of our issues are because of Bradford both on and off the field, I'm fine with keeping him as our starting QB, but he absolutely has to restructure his contract.

I think he is holding us back on the field, and is holding us back from making other moves off the field. Now before you Bradford lovers jump all over me, I realize it's not Bradfords fault they were willing to pay him that much, but if he is a smart college boy he should realize that his contract is killing us and that he is the only one that can do anything about it. We will see if he puts himself ahead of the team!

 

[jacobarch]

Yes SJ, and a lot of our issues are because of Bradford both on and off the field, I'm fine with keeping him as our starting QB, but he absolutely has to restructure his contract.

I think he is holding us back on the field, and is holding us back from making other moves off the field. Now before you Bradford lovers jump all over me, I realize it's not Bradfords fault they were willing to pay him that much, but if he is a smart college boy he should realize that his contract is killing us and that he is the only one that can do anything about it. We will see if he puts himself ahead of the team!

I don't think he will...He already did once, he wont do it again. If anything they'll offer him an extension, but i doubt he takes it. I don't even know if they give him his walking papers and this is the reason why........

Say he doesn't want to restructure and we release him (not gonna say trade him because no one wants a back loaded contract to deal with) and he goes to another team like saaaaaay. The Browns or Cincy and he becomes a complete bad ass because they have something the Rams haven' had in 10 years. A #1 WR!!!!!
What a bunch of tool bags we would look like for getting rid of him.
Ever heard of Kurt Warner? We kicked him out of town after taking us to two SB's, He sucked in NY because of his hand and no #1 WR and then he went to Arizona and took them to a Superbowl. End of story.
We as fans need to quit being so hasty and short sighted.

 

[SJ76]

The Browns or Cincy and he becomes a complete bad ass because they have
something the Rams haven' had in 10 years. A #1 WR!!!!!
What a bunch of tool bags we would look like for getting rid of him.

I don't really know of many teams that would scream for Bradford man. We need a #1 WR I agree, but I don't see Cincy taking Bradford contract over Dalton.

Ever heard of Kurt Warner? We kicked him out of town after taking us to two
SB's,

He's not Warner. LOL At least not yet. I guess he could learn a few things in the off season, but Sam has some work to do before he becomes "a bad ass". The great QBs make people around him better like Brady, Luck, etc. What are they working with currently at WR or the O-line?

This discussion can go round and round, but from what I have seen of Sam.. He needs to work on his pocket presence and most of all getting rid of the ball and taking chances downfield. He's too slow in many catagories -a step behind defenses and has a hard time reading defenses. And he needs perfect pocket protection. Sam doesn't look in charge of the offense. He doesn't call audibles = can't read defenses..?

Warner got rid of the ball so fast and he was great at reading defenses and putting the ball where only the offensive guys could get it.

 

[LTR1961]

"I guess he could learn a few things in the off season, but Sam has some work to do before he becomes "a bad ass". The great QBs make people around him better like Brady, Luck, etc. What are they working with currently at WR or the O-line?"


One thing I like about Sam is that he doesn’t and hasn’t thrown a ton of interceptions. However, much of that stems from, as you mentioned, that he really doesn’t make people around him better. He’s a game manager and doesn’t “throw guys open” as they say. I would like to see him take a few more chances and fit some throws in tight windows instead of throwing it away or taking a sack. Hell he has the arm to do it he just doesn’t seem to have the balls.

 

[jacobarch]

Agreed Bradford is no Warner. However, look at what Bulger did when he took over for Warner, they were just as good on Offense if not better for a couple years until the WR corps started to lose a step and they didnt replace those guys with quality Olinemen and WR's. My point is even a QB like Bulger can be a great QB if you surround him with good to great talent.

And look at Dalton, I think Bradford is a much better QB than Dalton, Imagine how he would look throwing to AJ green and Marvin Jones......I would speculate that his numbers would be off the charts.
Of course thats speculation.
I'm just saying lets not be so quick to kick him to the curb, The St. Louis Rams have a very very habit of letting players with great potential go and then it kicking them in the ass later.

 

[Retroram52]

One point of clarification directly from the horses mouth there jacobarch. Warner sucked in N.Y. because the offensive scheme did not fit Warner. His hand was find by his own admission and the team doctors cleared him to play.

 

[LTR1961]

Agreed Bradford is no Warner. However, look at what Bulger did when he took over for Warner, they were just as good on Offense if not better for a couple years until the WR corps started to lose a step and they didnt replace those guys with quality Olinemen and WR's. My point is even a QB like Bulger can be a great QB if you surround him with good to great talent.

And look at Dalton, I think Bradford is a much better QB than Dalton, Imagine how he would look throwing to AJ green and Marvin Jones......I would speculate that his numbers would be off the charts.
Of course thats speculation.
I'm just saying lets not be so quick to kick him to the curb, The St. Louis Rams have a very very habit of letting players with great potential go and then it kicking them in the ass later.

Didn't the Rams, and the fans for that matter, believe that they did surround Bradford with better talent this year? I feel the Rams and their fans both expected more out of guys like Givens, Austin, Baily and Cook. These guys have shown, at times, that they can be really good players if not difference makers. At some point you have to start wondering if it's the players, the coaching/schemes or the QB. The blame might fall equally on all of them but the talent is certainly there to be much more consistent offensively. That’s why this season has been so maddening compared to previous years. I think everyone expected more yet they’ve regressed as a team.

 

[Retroram52]

Chris Givens has digressed. He did not fight for the ball and the DB on Sunday here in Arizona easily took the ball from him. He fell down a lot. He looked like a complete wussie. Bailey conversely, got separation on every route he ran and he caught EVERY pass thrown to him when he was in there. I was totally impressed. He made Quick look like a big dumb wussie boy and Givens like a bust. Bailey is definitely a keeper.

 

[LTR1961]

Chris Givens has digressed. He did not fight for the ball and the DB on Sunday here in Arizona easily took the ball from him. He fell down a lot. He looked like a complete wussie. Bailey conversely, got separation on every route he ran and he caught EVERY pass thrown to him when he was in there. I was totally impressed. He made Quick look like a big dumb wussie boy and Givens like a bust. Bailey is definitely a keeper.

Baily has to play much more than he has been.

I think Quick could turn out to be a bust but with that being said I like to see the Rams at least make the attemot to target him more in the red zone. As big as he is just throw it up high and let go get it.

 

[Smed55]

"I guess he could learn a few things in the off season, but Sam has some work to do before he becomes "a bad ass". The great QBs make people around him better like Brady, Luck, etc. What are they working with currently at WR or the O-line?"


One thing I like about Sam is that he doesn’t and hasn’t thrown a ton of interceptions. However, much of that stems from, as you mentioned, that he really doesn’t make people around him better. He’s a game manager and doesn’t “throw guys open” as they say. I would like to see him take a few more chances and fit some throws in tight windows instead of throwing it away or taking a sack. Hell he has the arm to do it he just doesn’t seem to have the balls.

He doesn't throw a ton of interceptions because he's only throwing the ball 5 yards for the most part!

Plus as people have stated, our WR drop balls, he's also had a lot of interceptions dropped, so maybe it's true, he doesn't throw a catchable ball if the defense is dropping them too!

 

[LTR1961]

"He doesn't throw a ton of interceptions because he's only throwing the ball 5 yards for the most part!

Plus as people have stated, our WR drop balls, he's also had a lot of interceptions dropped, so maybe it's true, he doesn't throw a catchable ball if the defense is dropping them too!"

He's thrown the ball downfiled more that last 2 years than he did his 1st two years. Givens had quite a few 50+ yard receptions in 2012 and they did at least make the attempts downfield this year. The biggest problem I have with Sam is that he seems to hesitate on pulling the trigger unless a guy is wide open. As I said in an earlier post, he has the ability but he needs to grow a set.

 

[SJ76]

Agreed Bradford is no Warner. However, look at what Bulger did when he took over for Warner, they were just as good on Offense if not better for a couple years until the WR corps started to lose a step and they didnt replace those guys with quality Olinemen and WR's. My point is even a QB like Bulger can be a great QB if you surround him with good to great talent.

I was talking to VitaMike about this the other night. Bulger had a great O-line and pretty good WR's to throw to. He definitely needed a good/perfect pocket too, but against good defenses he was not that good at all. Maybe Martz went pass crazy, it's been so long. But Bulger needed perfection out of every position on the field to get it done with NO pass rush.

And look at Dalton, I think Bradford is a much better QB than Dalton, Imagine how he would look throwing to AJ green and Marvin Jones......I would speculate that his numbers would be off the charts.
Of course thats speculation.

Yeah sorry. I have a hard time thinking Bradford is way better than Dalton. Dalton has a little speed and he's had some good years. Maybe this year he has not been as good, but I have a funny feeling CINCY will be heading to the Super Bowl this year for the AFC. Cincy is on their way to making the playoffs for the 3rd consecutive year (1st time in franchise history). I think Dalton has done pretty good as QB and you can't put all the credit on the WR's in CINCY, but then say the QB in STL gets a pass. Every player on offense makes each other look good, but it's the QB that does it the most.

Vita and I also discussed drops this year and it has been plain as day in a few of the early games especially. We get this offense again next year after 1 year + a #1 WR, add a LT and even a pocket QB should be able to get it done. And I'm not looking for great stats or going 10-6 in the NFC West. I'm looking for rythmn on offense and moving the chains, scoring in the red zone. Making defenses looked lost like Warner did. But Sam needs to find some MOJO asap, some SWAG, some FIRE. Somethin

I'm just saying lets not be so quick to kick him to the curb, The St. Louis Rams have a very very habit of letting players with great potential go and then it kicking them in the ass later.

I think Sam would do better outside the NFC West. But so would most QBs, especially ones that can avoid pressure. But then again, you put Sam in the AFC North I seriously doubt he lights it up with any WRs.

As someone stated previously, he hesitates and doesn't seem to want to pull the trigger.

 

[jacobarch]

I agree for the most part with your points. I think Dalton has better scrambling ability than Bradford but thats about it. We can sit here and argue about it but he's on a winning team and Bradford isn't plain and simple and in the end thats all that matter. As they say QB's get too much praise and too much criticism.

And we know how our Oline has been performing this year. One game they'll look like an all star cast and the next they'll look like the AZ cards of last year. This team is wildly inconsistent.

 

[Silas]

I would love to see Austin Davis play, but Fisher won't play him.

 

[Smed55]

"He doesn't throw a ton of interceptions because he's only throwing the ball 5 yards for the most part!

Plus as people have stated, our WR drop balls, he's also had a lot of interceptions dropped, so maybe it's true, he doesn't throw a catchable ball if the defense is dropping them too!"

He's thrown the ball downfiled more that last 2 years than he did his 1st two years. Givens had quite a few 50+ yard receptions in 2012 and they did at least make the attempts downfield this year. The biggest problem I have with Sam is that he seems to hesitate on pulling the trigger unless a guy is wide open. As I said in an earlier post, he has the ability but he needs to grow a set.

Yes, I agree, I did say he throws short passes "for the most part" obviously if the majority of your passes are just long hand offs your not, or at least shouldn't throw to many interceptions. And he may have the abibilty, but I don't know that, I haven't seen any of it on a consistent basis.

 

[Smed55]

I was talking to VitaMike about this the other night. Bulger had a great O-line and pretty good WR's to throw to. He definitely needed a good/perfect pocket too, but against good defenses he was not that good at all. Maybe Martz went pass crazy, it's been so long. But Bulger needed perfection out of every position on the field to get it done with NO pass rush.




Yeah sorry. I have a hard time thinking Bradford is way better than Dalton. Dalton has a little speed and he's had some good years. Maybe this year he has not been as good, but I have a funny feeling CINCY will be heading to the Super Bowl this year for the AFC. Cincy is on their way to making the playoffs for the 3rd consecutive year (1st time in franchise history). I think Dalton has done pretty good as QB and you can't put all the credit on the WR's in CINCY, but then say the QB in STL gets a pass. Every player on offense makes each other look good, but it's the QB that does it the most.



Vita and I also discussed drops this year and it has been plain as day in a few of the early games especially. We get this offense again next year after 1 year + a #1 WR, add a LT and even a pocket QB should be able to get it done. And I'm not looking for great stats or going 10-6 in the NFC West. I'm looking for rythmn on offense and moving the chains, scoring in the red zone. Making defenses looked lost like Warner did. But Sam needs to find some MOJO asap, some SWAG, some FIRE. Somethin




I think Sam would do better outside the NFC West. But so would most QBs, especially ones that can avoid pressure. But then again, you put Sam in the AFC North I seriously doubt he lights it up with any WRs.

As someone stated previously, he hesitates and doesn't seem to want to pull the trigger.

I don't know SJ? I'm not so sure our Oline was that good back in the day of Warner and Bulger, they both got sacked quite a bit. I think in Warners case he got rid of the ball so quick and he threw to a spot whether his receivers were there yet or, so he not only made the WR look good, but made our Oline look better than they were. That's kind of the point you keep trying to make to some of these people in here, a good QB makes EVERYONE look better. Now before anyone jumps in here to say that we had great WR, yes we did, but Warner did throw the ball to spots a lot and he could count on Bruce and Holt being in that spot!

But I seriously didn't think that our oline was all that great. I wasn't even a big Orlando Pace fan, ya HOF tackle, but I'm pretty sure most of Warners and Bulgers sacks came from the blind side and that would be paces side! And as far as Pace, he would have never started on the Rams line of the late 60's early 70's the Rams had all pros all across that oline!

OK, let the Pace ripping begin, that's OK I can take it!

 

[SJ76]

Pace, Timmerman were good for awhile. bugler even got to the pro bowl. You don't do that behind a shitty Oline. It went downhill fast