THE PAC 12 THREAD v.5

[wazzu31]

Browning is one of the types who would probably actually benefit from staying, especially compared to darnold. Unless he gets bigger and stronger this year. He's smart, and prepared, but still seems to have some way to go with the physical aspects.

I think Browning needs to stay all 4 years. He is essentially Kellen Moore. Doesn't have one single attribute that will get him drafted high but if he can get enough tape on himself and some team should draft him without thinking he is Kellen Moore 2.0 and the upside of a backup QB. Brady stuck with it and didn't transfer after he got benched and the Pats drafted him with the idea of replacing Bledsoe.

 

[CorpRebel]

FWIW, I just saw Joel Klatt make a couple of very interesting points re: Darnold staying in school.

He said that the current QB's in the NFL who have won Super Bowls have thrown an average of 1100 passes and started 33 games in college. Darnold has thrown 366 passes and started 10 games.

He also pointed out that, with the new CBA, it's more important that a QB be ready to because the "generational money" is paid on the 2nd contract, not on a rookie contract (No more Sam Bradford guaranteed $50 mil. deals). Because of this, if a guy gets drafted and isn't ready, he's going to be moved on from quickly.

He said that 5 or so years ago, he'd be saying "go get your money." But with the way things are set up now, he's saying "Stay in school. Especially if you're a qb."

He DOES have a point there. Especially for QBs. I mean, look at the 1st round QBs drafted over past years and how many have really 'panned out' so far. Maybe more of these will actually do decent after some more time, though. Have to wait and see.

Heck.... Even Cleveland can't get a decent QB outta the draft these days that can get the team going in the right direction. heh heh

As for Darnold... ONE season at a time and then let's see what happens.

 

[ericd7633]

I think Browning needs to stay all 4 years. He is essentially Kellen Moore. Doesn't have one single attribute that will get him drafted high but if he can get enough tape on himself and some team should draft him without thinking he is Kellen Moore 2.0 and the upside of a backup QB. Brady stuck with it and didn't transfer after he got benched and the Pats drafted him with the idea of replacing Bledsoe.

Next year's draft class has the potential to be really, really top heavy. I've seen Rosen, Darnold, Allen(Wyoming), Mason Rudolph and Lamar Jackson all as potential top 15 picks. And I've seen Falk in the top 25. So that could potentially be 6 first rounders. Just based on that alone, it would probably make sense for him to stay. I think he has 1st round potential. I certainly think he's a better prospect than Kellen Moore was.

 

[wazzu31]

Next year's draft class has the potential to be really, really top heavy. I've seen Rosen, Darnold, Allen(Wyoming), Mason Rudolph and Lamar Jackson all as potential top 15 picks. And I've seen Falk in the top 25. So that could potentially be 6 first rounders. Just based on that alone, it would probably make sense for him to stay. I think he has 1st round potential. I certainly think he's a better prospect than Kellen Moore was.

I think he is better than Kellen Moore as well, I just don't think he has any superior intangible that a team would take a first round pick on. Falk is in the same boat, if he plays like he did at the end of the year then he will be a 4th round pick. I love Falk to death but I'm trolling hard if I say he is going to be a NFL star. He's essentially Tom Brady without a strong farm, which doesn't translate to the NFL.

 

[trojanfan12]

But still if he ends up being 1 or 2 on the QB board after this year it's hard to say no.

Look, browning has said he is planning on staying for his senior season as well and I still say I'll believe it when I see it. I'll wait to see what either say after the end of this season and after the draft frenzy begins.

Would it matter if USC made it to the playoff championship game? What if they won? What if they stink but his draft stock still goes up?

Just too many different things can make changes that impact those decisions.

Oh, I agree. What he says now, could very well change once he's faced with the reality of going to the NFL, being a top pick, etc.

Klatt makes a good point though about the way the CBA is set up now. Before the current CBA, staying in school could cost a player millions because he could be paid generational money on his rookie deal. Teams were more inclined to be patient because of the money invested.

Now, that money comes on the 2nd contract. So, it's more important for a guy to be ready to play when he enters the league because if he's not, teams will move on from him more quickly, because they don't have as much invested in him. So, if he's not ready when he enters the league, he may not get to that 2nd contract.

I'm not a Rams fan, but I live in SoCal so I hear about them on sports talk radio. Jared Goff has one season in the NFL and there is already talk that if he doesn't show enough improvement this season, they will move on from him.

 

[trojanfan12]

Would it matter if USC made it to the playoff championship game? What if they won? What if they stink but his draft stock still goes up?

That's the other thing too. Leinart came back because he wanted to try to win back to back NC's. Barkley came back because he wanted to win 1 and there was a lot of hype about the team going into the next season.

Almost worked out for Leinart...not so much for Barkley.

I think how USC performs could have a huge influence on what he does. If they get to the playoff or come real close (lose a very close PAC-12 CCG), maybe he returns to try and finish.

If they win the NC, maybe he decides he's accomplished all that he can in college (especially if he wins the Heisman too) and decides to go to the NFL.

If they don't do as well as expected, but he remains projected as a high pick, that will truly be the most interesting, imo. Does he return to try and "set things right"? Or does he leave since it didn't cost him this time, but most likely would if he returned and the team still didn't meet expectations?

I also wonder how much which teams have the top picks will weigh into his decision.

 

[trojanfan12]

He DOES have a point there. Especially for QBs. I mean, look at the 1st round QBs drafted over past years and how many have really 'panned out' so far. Maybe more of these will actually do decent after some more time, though. Have to wait and see.

Heck.... Even Cleveland can't get a decent QB outta the draft these days that can get the team going in the right direction. heh heh

As for Darnold... ONE season at a time and then let's see what happens.

Yeah, as I said earlier, before the current CBA, teams were more patient because they were investing huge dollars in high first round picks, especially qb's.

Now, they aren't investing nearly as much because of the way the CBA is set up which means they don't need to be as patient anymore. End result, a player who isn't ready, isn't going to be around long.

Agree on Darnold. Just going to enjoy watching him this season and worry about what he's going to do after the season when the season is over.

 

[WizardHawk]

There is still a big difference between top 10 and the rest of the first round, even for QB's. Investing in a top 10 pick generally still has teams being more patient as it looks really bad to whiff on players with that high of a stock pick.

These contracts may not be as high as they once were, but there are still millions at stake. The different between the top pick and 11th pick this year is double the signing bonus and double the overall contract. Cleveland is shelling out a $20m signing bonus on a $30m contract for 1st, while the Saints a paying $9m on a $15m contract for 11th. 32nd (again the Saints) is $4.6m and $9m.

Also, first rounders carry a 5th year option for the team. So it kind of sucks to be 32nd instead of 33rd as that first guy in the second round is free agent eligible a full year sooner on roughly the same salary. High draft pick 1st rounders aren't going to be able to get that windfall payday for one extra year as it's probably rare a valued player doesn't have that option picked up.

I do think it's more likely Browning stays than Darnold as the odds Browning would play solid enough, and be seen as NFL ready enough, by the teams isn't nearly as likely. Jake is kind of an odd kid as it is. He really doesn't have a mega ego. He lacks the cocky swagger of a kid looking to go destroy the NFL. He's a massive film room junkie, but I really don't know what his prospects look like at that level. He also needs to stay healthy and show he can take some punishment and still be resilient. Darnold just looks more sturdy, whether he is or not. Jake really does need to keep building up his body if he's going to make a move for the next level.

I'm sure we will all be speculating about both of them as the season wears on and the NFL scouts start weighing in more and more.

 

[socaljim242]

Slideshow: Ranking all 65 Power Five schools in overall athletic success

12. Oregon
Trajectory: Up. Ducks’ ranking has improved three years in a row, topping out at No. 9 this year. Phil Knight’s money makes a difference.

Who knew?

 

[Olyduck]

Slideshow: Ranking all 65 Power Five schools in overall athletic success

12. Oregon
Trajectory: Up. Ducks’ ranking has improved three years in a row, topping out at No. 9 this year. Phil Knight’s money makes a difference.

Who knew?

Who assumed?? all that money he put into golf and cross country and indoor and outdoor track. the sports Oregon has been winning National titles in

 

[WizardHawk]

You can only assume money does anything. They might have been just as good, if not better without it! You can't disprove that.

 

[Olyduck]

You can only assume money does anything. They might have been just as good, if not better without it! You can't disprove that.

for track and golf? yeah pretty sure they would be. its not like they have actually facilities or anything. Hayward is what Hayward is. and its not like he built them some new golf course

 

[WizardHawk]

Who assumed?? all that money he put into golf and cross country and indoor and outdoor track. the sports Oregon has been winning National titles in

Services for Student Athletes · University of Oregon
Let me help you out a bit from YOUR OWN SCHOOLS SITE -

The John E. Jaqua Academic Center for Student Athletes is a 40,000 sq. foot, state-of-the-art building for the NCAA-mandated academic services for student athletes. It stands as a showpiece, contributing to both recruitment of new athletes as well as retention and success of Oregon's many student athletes.

 

[WizardHawk]

Phil gave over $40m to build that athletic academic center and their own web site claims it helps in recruiting and retaining student athletes. This facility is used by ALL athletes for every sport.

So yeah, his money is felt all over every sport.

 

[Olyduck]

Services for Student Athletes · University of Oregon
Let me help you out a bit from YOUR OWN SCHOOLS SITE -

The NCAA mandated services for student athletes.

so wouldn't other schools have similar facilities?

 

[WizardHawk]

The NCAA mandated services for student athletes.

so wouldn't other schools have similar facilities?

I guarantee you they don't have $40+ million dollar elaborate facilities for it. Not most.

How do you reconcile your own school claiming it has impact on the very thing you are trying to claim it doesn't?

That's not spin by outsiders, that's from Oregon's own site!

 

[Olyduck]

I guarantee you they don't have $40+ million dollar elaborate facilities for it. Not most.

How do you reconcile your own school claiming it has impact on the very thing you are trying to claim it doesn't?

That's not spin by outsiders, that's from Oregon's own site!

maybe its just me but if I was a recruit and they showed it to me and were like here is a place you can study and get help with school, it just wouldn't do anything for me so I always forget its there.

 

[Olyduck]

I guarantee you they don't have $40+ million dollar elaborate facilities for it. Not most.

How do you reconcile your own school claiming it has impact on the very thing you are trying to claim it doesn't?

That's not spin by outsiders, that's from Oregon's own site!

ps not my school

 

[WizardHawk]

maybe its just me but if I was a recruit and they showed it to me and were like here is a place you can study and get help with school, it just wouldn't do anything for me so I always forget its there.

It has a cafe, computer lab and other such amenities, a student athlete lounge, reflecting pool, and other places to just sit and relax that are mostly only available to the student athletes themselves. Again, read the actual page I posted and their own depiction of that facility. In all ways it's a world class opulent structure for what is required. It is something students see when taking their visits. It very much has impact on at least some of those world class athletes.

You may not consider it an impact, but they sure do.

The facility is the result of a generous gift from Phil and Penny Knight to encourage academic achievement along with athletic performance.

Again, from their own site.

 

[WizardHawk]

So, he gave:
$100m for the basketball arena
$30m + another $5m on Autzen stadium
$42m for that tutoring and overall athletics facility
$68m for football training facility

But none of that actually impacts any of Oregon's results on the field/court/etc.

I mean come on Oly. You are really reaching for this. Especially when literally everyone has said there is nothing wrong with him doing that or it resulting in an unfair advantage over other Pac schools. Everyone would take a sugar daddy in a heartbeat.