The Kirk Contract Situation

[Breed]

Ok fair enough, his numbers and even wins in the last 2 years would suggest he has played at a top 5 level.

He's QBed the Skins to 17 wins over the last 2 years. 2 of which have been against winning teams, 3 if you count the 8-8 Vikes. He's 0-1 in the playoffs and lost a win n you're in the playoffs game Sunday. How is that top 5?

 

[Breed]

He's QBed the Skins to 17 wins over the last 2 years. 2 of which have been against winning teams, 3 if you count the 8-8 Vikes. He's 0-1 in the playoffs and lost a win n you're in the playoffs game Sunday. How is that top 5?

Edit:
Reed's blocking has become improved from last year to this year. And he cut down tremendously on his habit of holding.

Far as the running game goes. Could it be improved? Sure it could. but maybe what's really needed is commitment from the coaching staff. Stop playing hero ball with KC, THe Skins were 8-1-1 when rushing the ball 20 or mored times in a game. Common sense would seem to dictate 20-25 rushes a game at thne least should be mandatory

 

[redskin4209]

Edit:

Far as the running game goes. Could it be improved? Sure it could. but maybe what's really needed is commitment from the coaching staff. Stop playing hero ball with KC, The Skins were 8-1-1 when rushing the ball 20 or more times in a game. Common sense would seem to dictate 20-25 rushes a game at the least should be mandatory

I have always felt this way. This is one of many problems we have. We do need to run the ball more efficiently. Which why I believe we need a few more upgrades on the OFF line and add another RB. However Gruden appears to have a pass happy philosophy and less commitment to the RG. Gruden very often has less patience with RG. Having a QB throwing for alot of yardages quite often doesn't bold well.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I have always felt this way. This is one of many problems we have. We do need to run the ball more efficiently. Which why I believe we need a few more upgrades on the OFF line and add another RB. However Gruden appears to have a pass happy philosophy and less commitment to the RG. Gruden very often has less patience with RG. Having a QB throwing for alot of yardages quite often doesn't bold well.

It almost never bodes well to have a QB with off-the-chart stats since it generally indicates problems with the running game or defense. I think that the perfect example of that is Brees & the Saints. He just threw for his 5th 5000 yd season, and I am guessing that their overall W-L record during that time is not very good.

I think that the problem is less with Gruden and more with upgrading the rest of the team. A good quality running back (which quite often is not that hard to find) and perhaps a tweaking of the line (not a lot - just improvement for the current players or one more role playing O lineman could do wonders) could make a difference. Upgrading the D could make even more difference since then the O and QB don't always feel like they have to win the game. In this area you are really just looking to make the D decent - not some killer D which will be almost impossible in this era.

 

[skinz2winz]

It almost never bodes well to have a QB with off-the-chart stats since it generally indicates problems with the running game or defense. I think that the perfect example of that is Brees & the Saints. He just threw for his 5th 5000 yd season, and I am guessing that their overall W-L record during that time is not very good.

I think that the problem is less with Gruden and more with upgrading the rest of the team. A good quality running back (which quite often is not that hard to find) and perhaps a tweaking of the line (not a lot - just improvement for the current players or one more role playing O lineman could do wonders) could make a difference. Upgrading the D could make even more difference since then the O and QB don't always feel like they have to win the game. In this area you are really just looking to make the D decent - not some killer D which will be almost impossible in this era.

All of what you say makes sense and should be addressed however, a more quality offensive coordinator would help. Don't give me McVay is up for coaching vacancy's. His play calling is not very good nor very consistent with the flow of the game. The offense needs consistency in the run game which means more upgrades up front and with play calling.

 

[Sportster 72]

I do not know what the top recording TE is and I don't want to make it sound like we have a bad receiving corps because I like our guys but we have by yards the No. 18 and 23 WR ... by receptions ... No. 22 (Garcon), 41(Jordan Reed), 42 (Crowder) and 66 (DJax). it isn't quite like when Sonny had Bobby Mitchell, Charley Taylor and Jerry Smith and all three ended up in the top 10.

Whoever made the comment that the OLine is not partially responsible because three sacks were by DBs is not only bad at math but needs some re-education at football. 4 DL and one blitz against 5 OL is an equal number. If they bring a 6th guy then you need a RB or TE. Of course there are variables, overloads etc. I know one sack that a DB got he beat Moses and CT.

 

[ehb5]

OK. Since Kirk does need more help on offense (a running game specifically) who should we get to replace him that won't need a running game?

Does he need more help? Our offense was pretty good this year.

 

[ehb5]

I do not know what the top recording TE is and I don't want to make it sound like we have a bad receiving corps because I like our guys but we have by yards the No. 18 and 23 WR ... by receptions ... No. 22 (Garcon), 41(Jordan Reed), 42 (Crowder) and 66 (DJax). it isn't quite like when Sonny had Bobby Mitchell, Charley Taylor and Jerry Smith and all three ended up in the top 10.

Whoever made the comment that the OLine is not partially responsible because three sacks were by DBs is not only bad at math but needs some re-education at football. 4 DL and one blitz against 5 OL is an equal number. If they bring a 6th guy then you need a RB or TE. Of course there are variables, overloads etc. I know one sack that a DB got he beat Moses and CT.

I'm not sure the ball being spread between guys means he doesn't have great recievers. I'm not sure any team has a better overall group of pass catchers.

 

[Sharkinva]

Does he need more help? Our offense was pretty good this year.

Our offense was pretty good, except in a few key areas. Running in the redzone, hell redzone in general says, there are some areas that need addressed. We do need an upgrade in a few key spots on the O-line.

 

[ehb5]

Our offense was pretty good, except in a few key areas. Running in the redzone, hell redzone in general says, there are some areas that need addressed. We do need an upgrade in a few key spots on the O-line.

I think you definitely could upgrade some places but I think that we just have to accept we won't be perfect everywhere. The offense was pretty good. We need to fix the defense.

 

[Sportster 72]

I'm not sure the ball being spread between guys means he doesn't have great recievers. I'm not sure any team has a better overall group of pass catchers.

Which is why I said "I don't want to make it sound like we have a bad receiving corps because I like our guys" Overall we have to be at least top 5.

 

[redskinsfan]

Second round...you generally get 2-3 year projects at QB in those later rounds if you're extremely lucky, more skilled players in the earlier rounds with a greater chance at quick success once in a good training system. This is why the hiring of Matt Cavanaugh was extremely important for this organization .

It's a good thing we don't need to draft anyone on defense with that pick. Otherwise, that would be pretty crazy, right?

 

[Sportster 72]

There was the Hatfield and McCoys and the Cousins fans and the Griffin fans.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

What?? He has an elite recording tight end, an elite deep threat who is an all around great reciever and NOT a one trick pony, a solid possession reciever, one of the leagues best slot recievers, the best #2 tight end in the entire league, and a rushing attack that was top 10 in ypc. You think he needs LeVeon bell on TOP of that??

Elite recording TE? Best #2 Tight End? one of the best slot receivers?
That could be argued, Djax has not been elite in this system, he has been a decoy and until recently...only effective on long passes. Cousins and Djax have also missed on quite a bit of those passes too. You called Garcon "solid"...that's NOT elite. Jordan Reed has played really well, and I say he is reaching elite territory but
how long will he be able to keep playing with all the concussions he's had? Crowder is FAR from elite, lol.
He benefits from not being game planned against. He also sees one-on-one coverage which is the easiest to beat. If you noticed he disappeared late in the season, because teams started respecting him. I'm saying if we
had an elite player on offense...it could really help. WE do have some good players though. Also we have nothing
at RB. Kelley is average.

He's QBed the Skins to 17 wins over the last 2 years. 2 of which have been against winning teams, 3 if you count the 8-8 Vikes. He's 0-1 in the playoffs and lost a win n you're in the playoffs game Sunday. How is that top 5?

You could be confusing "top 5" with Elite.
I never said Cousins was Elite at this point. I will say ESPN and NFL network referred to Cousins's play as "good as anyone in the league" during his win streak last year. Also QBs like Rivers and Brees often have Top 5 stats but that doesn't mean the TEAM has done well. So again, Top 5 doesn't mean I called him Elite.

All four of them? That would be a bit much, dont ya think?

Don't put it past Synder, LOL!

 

[ehb5]

Elite recording TE? Best #2 Tight End? one of the best slot receivers?
That could be argued, Djax has not been elite in this system, he has been a decoy and until recently...only effective on long passes. Cousins and Djax have also missed on quite a bit of those passes too. You called Garcon "solid"...that's NOT elite. Jordan Reed has played really well, and I say he is reaching elite territory but
how long will he be able to keep playing with all the concussions he's had? Crowder is FAR from elite, lol.
He benefits from not being game planned against. He also sees one-on-one coverage which is the easiest to beat. If you noticed he disappeared late in the season, because teams started respecting him. I'm saying if we
had an elite player on offense...it could really help. WE do have some good players though. Also we have nothing
at RB. Kelley is average.



You could be confusing "top 5" with Elite.
I never said Cousins was Elite at this point. I will say ESPN and NFL network referred to Cousins's play as "good as anyone in the league" during his win streak last year. Also QBs like Rivers and Brees often have Top 5 stats but that doesn't mean the TEAM has done well. So again, Top 5 doesn't mean I called him Elite.





Don't put it past Synder, LOL!

My point isnt that he has elite talent all around him. Obviously he doesnt - nobody does. My point is he has more receiving talent around him then anybody else or at least damn close to it so I dont see how he could need MORE.

 

[Sharkinva]

My point isnt that he has elite talent all around him. Obviously he doesnt - nobody does. My point is he has more receiving talent around him then anybody else or at least damn close to it so I dont see how he could need MORE.

Because odds are he will lose one if not both his top WRs on that list. And honestly I dont think its about needing MORE players, but MORE production from things like the run game. Sure we had a 5.4 YPC average, But we were 27th in actual rushing attempts in the league. We have seen now that going pass happy while good for the stats sheet in yards, is NOT really all that great for a win/loss total. We are too quick to abandon the run, and that is where Kirk actually needs more help.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

My point isnt that he has elite talent all around him. Obviously he doesnt - nobody does. My point is he has more receiving talent around him then anybody else or at least damn close to it so I dont see how he could need MORE.

He doesn't need more, he needs one receiver who is like an AJ Green, Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson...along with
a good TE, #2WR. Garcon and Djax at this point their careers, IMO....only excel at certain routes. Garcon is not a burner, Djax shouldn't be thrown red zone fades. A true #1WR could handle all the routes, block, not slip on a crucial play, lol...and even come up with a big play when the QB makes a bad throw. With the size and speed of today's DBs...both of those guys are just #2's

I like Cousins but he needs a more on offense. We agree the defense is TRASH

 

[Breed]

You could be confusing "top 5" with Elite.
I never said Cousins was Elite at this point. I will say ESPN and NFL network referred to Cousins's play as "good as anyone in the league" during his win streak last year. Also QBs like Rivers and Brees often have Top 5 stats but that doesn't mean the TEAM has done well. So again, Top 5 doesn't mean I called him Elite.

I used the same wording as you did in my response (post #41) to your opinion that Cousins W/L record over the last 2 years suggest he's playing at a top 5 level. I said nothing using the word "elite" though I'd opine saying "Player X is playing at a top 5 level." or saying "Player X is playing at an elite level." often times means the same thing to many. Regardless of that.

Going 17-14-1 over a two year period and in the process. Winning what many consideded the weakest division in football at that time with a 9-7 record. With none of the wins coming against teams with a winning record and going one n done in the playoffs to officially end the season.

Than coming back the following year in what must be said was a much improved division. To go 8-7-1 with 2 wins or 3 wins depending on one's opinion of what constitutes a team with a winning record. But ending the year on a 2-4 skid in your last 6 games. Thereby blowing multiple chances to attain a playoff spot that was there for the taking and officially ending the season in 3rd place within your division.

Has nothing to do with and is not even close to being top 5 or elite in any shape, form or fashion. Finishing with an above .500 record two years in a row does show some type improvement though.


Hopefully this clears up any and all confusion, you, I, or we may've had previosuly.

 

[ehb5]

He doesn't need more, he needs one receiver who is like an AJ Green, Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson...along with
a good TE, #2WR. Garcon and Djax at this point their careers, IMO....only excel at certain routes. Garcon is not a burner, Djax shouldn't be thrown red zone fades. A true #1WR could handle all the routes, block, not slip on a crucial play, lol...and even come up with a big play when the QB makes a bad throw. With the size and speed of today's DBs...both of those guys are just #2's

I like Cousins but he needs a more on offense. We agree the defense is TRASH

So he does need more...which I think is crazy.

 

[redskinsfan]

Edit:
Reed's blocking has become improved from last year to this year. And he cut down tremendously on his habit of holding.

Far as the running game goes. Could it be improved? Sure it could. but maybe what's really needed is commitment from the coaching staff. Stop playing hero ball with KC, THe Skins were 8-1-1 when rushing the ball 20 or mored times in a game. Common sense would seem to dictate 20-25 rushes a game at thne least should be mandatory

That stat is pretty misleading Breed. It seems to suggest that if you run the ball and balance out things out, you've got a winning formula for the Redskins. In fact, the running game held us back and any success we had was usually towards the end of the game. What has worked wonders is using the short passing game to substitute for the running game and then work that to set up runs to keep the defense honest. People who rely on that stat haven't watched and/or understand the dynamics between our running and passing games.