The Kirk Contract Situation

[ehb5]

Second round...you generally get 2-3 year projects at QB in those later rounds if you're extremely lucky, more skilled players in the earlier rounds with a greater chance at quick success once in a good training system. This is why the hiring of Matt Cavanaugh was extremely important for this organization .

Im not opposed to this if a really good prospect falls to us in the 2nd and we're really sold but its risky. Something tells me Cousins wont enjoy having his replacement drafted in the 2nd round. Plus ifwe wanna stick with Cousins we are wasting a 2nd rounder that could have really helped us.

 

[Sharkinva]

BTW: Unless I misunderstood you (that's very possible) any attempts to upgrade at QB is just "chasing elite at it's best" right? Then why bother at all? To hell, with trying, let just all resign ourselves to mediocre or bottom of the pack teams until forever again.

Here is the thing, its fine to look for an upgrade. But to honestly consider taking a step back to facilitate looking for an upgrade is nothing more than chasing elite. My thinking is, if the Front Office and Fanbase could live with Kirk, we could do the little things like upgrade the defense, O-line and running game and Kirk WOULD be good enough to get us where we want to be. But because he isnt Elite, wasnt the second over all pick in the draft, he will never be good enough.

 

[Sharkinva]

Im sorry? Did I miss something?

Yea, the part where Kirk has actually been a pretty good QB. IN any other city, resigning him would be a no brainer. Only in DC can a QB break most of the franchise records, and still have a fanbase that says... well he might not be good enough.

 

[ehb5]

Yea, the part where Kirk has actually been a pretty good QB. IN any other city, resigning him would be a no brainer. Only in DC can a QB break most of the franchise records, and still have a fanbase that says... well he might not be good enough.

Were we talking about Kirk?

 

[Stymietee]

Im not opposed to this if a really good prospect falls to us in the 2nd and we're really sold but its risky. Something tells me Cousins wont enjoy having his replacement drafted in the 2nd round. Plus ifwe wanna stick with Cousins we are wasting a 2nd rounder that could have really helped us.

Agreed, biut all of this was predicated upon them franchising him again. To me, if they do that again then Kirk becomes the yearly rental until that guy is ready. For the life of me I still don't understand that Sudfield pick. Unless the guy has something that they see playing out after another year of franchising Kirk, it makes no sense to me. BPA doesn't even explain it, because the question that follows BPA is....to do what?

 

[Sharkinva]

Agreed, biut all of this was predicated upon them franchising him again. To me, if they do that again then Kirk becomes the yearly rental until that guy is ready. For the life of me I still don't understand that Sudfield pick. Unless the guy has something that they see playing out after another year of franchising Kirk, it makes no sense to me. BPA doesn't even explain it, because the question that follows BPA is....to do what?

My thinking is... $58M guaranteed can be spent alot better than renting a QB for two years while we HOPE the new guy can develop to be as good as or better than the guy we could have for basically $14M less over that time span any way. Last I checked, $14M over two years could get you a couple of pretty good D-lineman, Or a safety.. or fuck maybe a RB?? Just a thought.

 

[Stymietee]

My thinking is... $58M guaranteed can be spent alot better than renting a QB for two years while we HOPE the new guy can develop to be as good as or better than the guy we could have for basically $14M less over that time span any way. Last I checked, $14M over two years could get you a couple of pretty good D-lineman, Or a safety.. or fuck maybe a RB?? Just a thought.

Well beside stupid by some accounts here what else do you call franchising a QB for two consecutive seasons? Again we are not hoping for anything at all, we are upgrading at the backup position today with player(s) that are head and shoulders above what we currently have....AND.... putting into place insurance that we will have at minimum high level competence in the event of injury or decision. Right now we have neither of those thing with McCoy and I believe Sudfield. Turns out, that's how we ended up with Kirk in the first place. Guess if it seemed to work once it won't happen again, so, like I said before, let's not try at all. Can't quote you, but to paraphrase, "There still will be plenty of money even if we resign all of our offensive players to redo our defense through free agency and the draft."

 

[skinsdad62]

i am not sure you can put a 2nd round draft choice into a BU qb when the defense is awful ,

 

[Stymietee]

i am not sure you can put a 2nd round draft choice into a BU qb when the defense is awful ,

I would agree IF we didn't have other draft picks. Right now we have 9, one in each of the seven rounds plus two in the fourth and two in the sixth. A lot can be done with what's left after using that pick including trading up into the late second and earlier third rounds if Scot saw much needed quality upgrades there. We also have the luxury of having a significant amount of cap space that can be used to acquire players at needed spots. This is all included in what is our 3rd year of the rebuild.

 

[Sharkinva]

At the end of the day, is Matt Stafford a Franchise QB?? How many playoffs games has he won?? Who is his backup that is competing with him for the starting job??

Now after you answer that, go look at Stafford's bio and performance and compare it to Cousins.


Then honestly ask yourself, would you consider replacing Cousins, and if so is it because he isnt a good starter.


I expect us to screw this up not because Kirk isnt worth keeping, but because he doesnt come with the flash factor.

 

[skinsdad62]

I would agree IF we didn't have other draft picks. Right now we have 9, one in each of the seven rounds plus two in the fourth and two in the sixth. A lot can be done with what's left after using that pick including trading up into the late second and earlier third rounds if Scot saw much needed quality upgrades there. We also have the luxury of having a significant amount of cap space that can be used to acquire players at needed spots. This is all included in what is our 3rd year of the rebuild.

typically those later draft picks dont make it

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Haven't done my comparison homework but do we have anybody considered Elite on offense? Linemen have to report to record receptions or run, so excluding Trent, the real problem could be Cousins lacks elite talent.
Garcon is a chain mover, and Djax(only due to injury risk IMO) is a one trick pony. Reed can't block. I never thought about that. Give Cousins an AJ Green or Julio, and he's probably top 3. Give him LeSean McCoy or LeVeon Bell and he's top 3. On defense i think its already been established we don't have any elite players as well.
Kerrigan and Norman need help to tap into elite play. Our LG/C/RB is also a joke.
Man, Cousins is screwed....I'm very, very upset with his play in big games but wow, maybe we are expecting too much from a player who is slightly above AVERAGE, and has below average talent around him.

 

[Sharkinva]

@Skin'EmAll


Cousins is a bit more than slightly above average. But I agree he needs a LG,C, RB and some solid help from the defensive side of the ball, and I would raise you a RT who is better than slightly above average.

 

[j_y19]

I dont think anyone is calling him elite nor that he doesn't need talent around him. But here is the rub. We are finally in a place where we have cap space and picks this offseason. We can go a long way toward filling the roster with upgraded talent. But some think we should scrap it all and use a significant portion of this bounty towards replacing Cousins......go figure. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

@Skin'EmAll


Cousins is a bit more than slightly above average. But I agree he needs a LG,C, RB and some solid help from the defensive side of the ball, and I would raise you a RT who is better than slightly above average.

Ok fair enough, his numbers and even wins in the last 2 years would suggest he has played at a top 5 level.
His best options on offense usually don't make it thru the full season, and the defense has had major injuries as well, with Cravens being a huge loss. I think its fair to say maybe he is worth a long term deal.
And he's even said, he's willing to restructure.

 

[Sharkinva]

Ok fair enough, his numbers and even wins in the last 2 years would suggest he has played at a top 5 level.
His best options on offense usually don't make it thru the full season, and the defense has had major injuries as well, with Cravens being a huge loss. I think its fair to say maybe he is worth a long term deal.
And he's even said, he's willing to restructure.

Just to be clear, I think we should sign him long term.

But I also think the team will find a way to screw this up. And if we are going to franchise tag him again, I would sooner see us just let him walk for both the sake of the player and the franchise.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

agreed. based on Synder's history, the "luck" Dallas had in the draft, and all the holes we have....I doubt they offer him anything close to what his agent is seeking. Plus the organization wouldn't shock me if they roll the dice on Cutler, Romo, T.Taylor and Gabbert

 

[j_y19]

agreed. based on Synder's history, the "luck" Dallas had in the draft, and all the holes we have....I doubt they offer him anything close to what his agent is seeking. Plus the organization wouldn't shock me if they roll the dice on Cutler, Romo, T.Taylor and Gabbert

All four of them? That would be a bit much, dont ya think?

 

[ehb5]

Haven't done my comparison homework but do we have anybody considered Elite on offense? Linemen have to report to record receptions or run, so excluding Trent, the real problem could be Cousins lacks elite talent.
Garcon is a chain mover, and Djax(only due to injury risk IMO) is a one trick pony. Reed can't block. I never thought about that. Give Cousins an AJ Green or Julio, and he's probably top 3. Give him LeSean McCoy or LeVeon Bell and he's top 3. On defense i think its already been established we don't have any elite players as well.
Kerrigan and Norman need help to tap into elite play. Our LG/C/RB is also a joke.
Man, Cousins is screwed....I'm very, very upset with his play in big games but wow, maybe we are expecting too much from a player who is slightly above AVERAGE, and has below average talent around him.

What?? He has an elite recording tight end, an elite deep threat who is an all around great reciever and NOT a one trick pony, a solid possession reciever, one of the leagues best slot recievers, the best #2 tight end in the entire league, and a rushing attack that was top 10 in ypc. You think he needs LeVeon bell on TOP of that??

The defense is bad, we all know that. But I'll say it again - if Kirk needs more help on offense then we need a QB.

 

[j_y19]

What?? He has an elite recording tight end, an elite deep threat who is an all around great reciever and NOT a one trick pony, a solid possession reciever, one of the leagues best slot recievers, the best #2 tight end in the entire league, and a rushing attack that was top 10 in ypc. You think he needs LeVeon bell on TOP of that??

The defense is bad, we all know that. But I'll say it again - if Kirk needs more help on offense then we need a QB.

OK. Since Kirk does need more help on offense (a running game specifically) who should we get to replace him that won't need a running game?