The Hobbit 1: An Unexpected Journey (2012)

[bchampy]

OK, but in the book, wasn't there a talking bear somewhere? I suppose I could make my lazy ass google it.

Yes, there was a guy named Beorn that could turn into a bear.

Beorn will appear in the two-film adaptation of The Hobbit.
The Swedish actor Mikael Persbrandt is cast as Beorn in Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. Beorn never actually shape-shifts between man and bear-form during the narrative of The Hobbit book: he is encountered in both forms, but his actual transformation appears "off-screen", away from the point of view of the main characters. Comments made by Weta Workshop indicate that in the adaptation, Beorn's transformation from man to bear will be a major special effects sequence.

I suppose I should reread it to the kids sometime.

Yeah, but if I recall he was more of a "Tom Bombadil" character. Didn't have much to do with the story overall.

They stayed at his place right before venturing into Mirkwood (which leads to them pissing the elves off). After that, I think he's nonexistent until he pops up during the final battle in his bear form and goes beast mode on some wargs and goblins.

 

[mysfit]

They could have cut 2-3 of the "endings" and did the Scouring ...but, yea, it would have been to long if they tried doing it right... I was okay without Tom...it would have just confused non-readers...Even with all the deviations there isn't anything to have major complaints about, I think. The changes were well done.

I agree. I thought all the changes enhanced the storylines.

 

[bchampy]

I thought Sting was Orc specific?

My brain may have pulled "evil" from the movies.

Orc/Goblin. Although they were pretty much interchangeable in the books and movies. I think goblins are smaller versions of orcs that live underground.

The creatures that attacked the fellowship on Moria would be consodered goblins.

Tolkien himself went back and forth on the origin of orcs, being as there were never any female orcs mentioned.

Tolkien once wrote that the Orcs were created from elves who were tortured and transformed, which should have made them immortal but he never confirmed nor denied that.

 

[bchampy]

They could have cut 2-3 of the "endings" and did the Scouring ...but, yea, it would have been to long if they tried doing it right... I was okay without Tom...it would have just confused non-readers...Even with all the deviations there isn't anything to have major complaints about, I think. The changes were well done.

I agree. I thought all the changes enhanced the storylines.

This is why I like the extended versions. They were more detailed in the relationships between the members of the Fellowship, especially the tension between Boromir and Aragorn. Leaving out the tension between them while in Lothlorien kinda takes some of the meaning away from their conversation as Boromir is dying.

 

[rfjeff9]

My brain may have pulled "evil" from the movies.

Orc/Goblin. Although they were pretty much interchangeable in the books and movies. I think goblins are smaller versions of orcs that live underground.

The creatures that attacked the fellowship on Moria would be consodered goblins.

Tolkien himself went back and forth on the origin of orcs, being as there were never any female orcs mentioned.

Tolkien once wrote that the Orcs were created from elves who were tortured and transformed, which should have made them immortal but he never confirmed nor denied that.

One of the swords from Gondolin they found in the troll cave was called ORCrist - The goblin cleaver. So they were the same guys. And if Morgoth twisted dark elves into the goblins, it only makes sense that some were female.

 

[rfjeff9]

BTW, we can officially re-label this the UBER-NERD THREAD

 

[mysfit]

Unless 'twisting' them made them neuters.

And they were created rather than self propagating.

Given how they were 'born in the muck' in the movies I can see them being creations rather than reproduced.

 

[bchampy]

One of the swords from Gondolin they found in the troll cave was called ORCrist - The goblin cleaver. So they were the same guys. And if Morgoth twisted dark elves into the goblins, it only makes sense that some were female.

It makes sense, I was just pointing out that Tolkien himself never mention a female orc. Although in the Silmarillion, he says:

"For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar."

So it's possible, although orc/goblin children were never mentioned either to my knowledge.

 

[rfjeff9]

Jackson took some liberties, but the story overall he did was excellent. Nothing was cut that took away from the overall story that I can remember. A few additions that were fine by me.

 

[mysfit]

try googling 'how do orcs reproduce'

apparently there is no clear cut absolute answer and it is up for speculation. I have seen several references to what BChamp mentions to support some sort of sexual reproduction.

In the Hobbit we have Bolg son of Azog

So one mention of an orc offspring

 

[bchampy]

try googling 'how do orcs reproduce'

apparently there is no clear cut absolute answer and it is up for speculation. I have seen several references to what BChamp mentions to support some sort of sexual reproduction.

Tolkien wrote that evil was not capable of independent creation. They could only take what was created and twist it to evil to serve their ways.

Saruman had orcs breed with human men to create the Uruk-hai, so either there were female orcs or human females mated with male orcs. Or both.

I don't think Tolkien ever decided where orcs originated. He started by saying they were mutilated and tortured elves, but changed the time of men to begin alongside the time of elves to say that orcs were related to men.

He died before he could complete the change in cosmology of Arda(Earth), so the elf origin is what was used in the Silmarillion.

 

[bchampy]

BTW, I'm sort of a Tolkien nerd. Need to freshen up.

 

[romeo212000]

BTW, I'm sort of a Tolkien nerd. Need to freshen up.

Really? I would've never guessed.

 

[The Crimson King]

BTW, I'm sort of a Tolkien nerd. Need to freshen up.

Sen tîr?

 

[bchampy]

Sen tîr?

Pedich Edhellen?

 

[herky]

In case anyone is interested. . . .


Mythgard Institute | the day has come

C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien are two of the pillars of modern fantasy, and their friendship is well known. Despite the fact that the two authors are so frequently associated with each other, however, their works are rarely examined closely together. In this class, we will engage in a careful comparison of Lewis’s and Tolkien’

s fiction, paying close attention to those moments when they are both exploring similar ideas or undertaking comparable literary enterprises. What do these two authors really share in common, and where do their primary differences lie?

 

[johnnytata]

can't fuckin wait. apparently there will be a trailer in tin tin. might have to see that.

i'm rereading lotr right now, and i am actually digging the whole compare the books to the movie thing. haven't once yet thought they should have done anything differently.

i am pretty confident the hobbit movies will fuckin kick ass.


also silmarillion could never be done. it spans the entire history of the universe, however many thousands of years that is. the fall of numenor and the overthrow of
morgoth would be fucking incredible, could you imagine an army of balrogs? fuckn awesome.

 

[rfjeff9]

The world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the Moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone.

He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadow of his head.

The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day.

A king he was on carven throne
In many-pillared halls of stone
With golden roof and silver floor,
And runes of power upon the door.
The light of sun and star and moon
In shining lamps of crystal hewn
Undimmed by cloud or shade of night
There shone for ever fair and bright.

There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was blade, and bound was hilt;
The delver mined, the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale,
And metal wrought like fishes' mail,
Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in hoard.
Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.

The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls;
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;

The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dum.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.

 

[Tomhusker]

I'd rather read the book again.

 

[bchampy]

If you have the right people behind it a series of movies about the battle against Morgoth would be epic. Morgoth>>>>>Sauron.

Also I'll definitely check that link out when I get home. It's well know that Lewis had elements of Christianity in the books and I can see where the Istari could represent angels(cant directly engage the dark lord, only help other do it etc).