The Greatest Closer of All Time Will Enter the Baseball HOF Next Year

[bksballer89]

Hells bells, it's Trevor time!

Wow Mariano is eligible after being retired for one year? Pretty fucking cool if you ask me

 

[broncosmitty]

Lee Smith, Billy Wagner and Trevor Hoffman all get in. Griffey has to wait. Cuz lord knows guys that pitch one inning every third day are realllll important.

 

[Wazmankg]

What do you think Hoffman's chances are of getting into the Hall next year?

Lee Smith, Billy Wagner and Trevor Hoffman all get in. Griffey has to wait. Cuz lord knows guys that pitch one inning every third day are realllll important.

Yeah. Ima go with zero.

 

[navamind]

Even for a reliever, Wagner's ~900 career innings are ridiculously low.

 

[broncosmitty]

If any closer gets more votes than Bonds, Clemens, Griffey, Piazza, Raines, Tram, Mussina or even Bagwell or Kent something ain't right.

I'll say 3% Hoffman gets in.

 

[da55bums]

Thought this was about Eckersly 1st and then thought Smoltz 2nd. Closers that could go more than 1 inning and also ripped off a few double digit win seasons..

 

[Cyder]

Yeah, Hoffman makes it in next year but as others have said Rivera is the best closer ever not Hoffman.

It's not even close. As good as Hoffman was he couldn't shine Mariano's shoes, especially in a big game.

 

[Cyder]

Thought this was about Eckersly 1st and then thought Smoltz 2nd. Closers that could go more than 1 inning and also ripped off a few double digit win seasons..

Over half of Mariano's post season saves are more than one inning.

 

[HammerDown]

It's not even close. As good as Hoffman was he couldn't shine Mariano's shoes, especially in a big game.

Yeah, based on what? How many syringes he left in the bullpen restroom?

 

[Cyder]

Pete Rose is overdue for induction into the HOF.

He can't be inducted at this point. Even if the ban is lifted it will be up to the vets committee. He can't be voted on

 

[Cyder]

Yeah, based on what? How many syringes he left in the bullpen restroom?

There was never a single rumor about Mariano doing steroids. He threw one pitch and they managed his innings during the regular season so he lasted a while. Every team had roiders so there's as much a chance Hoffman did them as Mariano

 

[calsnowskier]

He can't be inducted at this point. Even if the ban is lifted it will be up to the vets committee. He can't be voted on

Is this accurate?

Let's assume for discussion purposes that he either dies tomorrow or the ban is lifted.

Would he not go onto the ballot as a first timer? Was he on the ballot at one point already and failed to get the 5%?

 

[Cyder]

Is this accurate?

Let's assume for discussion purposes that he either dies tomorrow or the ban is lifted.

Would he not go onto the ballot as a first timer? Was he on the ballot at one point already and failed to get the 5%?

It's accurate, I've heard it spoken about on sports radio endlessly. I guess a commish could make some kind of resolution, who knows where the offices power begins or ends.

 

[Cyder]

Sure but league average wasn't exactly that much lower.

The modern closer is probably the biggest waste of money (and talent) in professional sports.

I used to think that way but I've seen too many teams lose becuase their closer tanked (Atlanta should have won 1996 if not for Wholers for instance) and too many teams find the closer a valuable position. Personally I liked how the anks used Mariano in 1996 prior to making him the closer. 100 innings, 130 K's and 1 HR allowed. He also came in when the Yanks were in trouble rather than just at the start of innings.

I'm not sure what it is about closing that some guys who are good relievers just can't handle.

 

[calsnowskier]

I used to think that way but I've seen too many teams lose becuase their closer tanked (Atlanta should have won 1996 if not for Wholers for instance) and too many teams find the closer a valuable position. Personally I liked how the anks used Mariano in 1996 prior to making him the closer. 100 innings, 130 K's and 1 HR allowed. He also came in when the Yanks were in trouble rather than just at the start of innings.

I'm not sure what it is about closing that some guys who are good relievers just can't handle.

The 9th inning just done something to certain guys. You can have an absolute beast 8th inning guy who does a total face-plant when he is promoted to the 9th inning. It happens all the time.

Why?

I suspect the beast 7th or 8th inning guy probably gets put into much better, winning situations than a 9th inning guy gets. What I mean by that is that an 8th inning guy will only face 2 batters and get pulled for a ROOGY/LOOGY for the tough batter, whereas the closer has to go 3 outs and face the tough batter, regardless of the side of plate. Also, in the 9th inning, the trailing team will pull all stops to get something going. They will pinch hit for the catcher in the 9th when they likely would not in the 6th, for example.

So why have a closer at all?

Because players like to "know their role". The closer knows, in the 6th inning, that he will be getting into the game in a couple innings if his team is still leading. He can get himself mentally prepared (just like a SP has his weekly routine for his rotation spot). A 6th inning guy knows that once the 7th inning comes along, he can "shut down", and he begins to mentally warm up in the 4th.

Is the closer over-rated?

Yes. But having a bully hierarchy is VERY important. For the Giants, for example, Jeramy Affeldt was never a closer. However, he playeda HUGE role in all 3 championships because he was a non-LOOGY lefty who could come into the game in the 6th inning (or earlier) and bridge the game to the next level (2010 brawl game, 2014 WS game 7). Wilson/Casilla would not have worked in those situations, because mentally, they were not prepared for those situations.

 

[Cyder]

The 9th inning just done something to certain guys. You can have an absolute beast 8th inning guy who does a total face-plant when he is promoted to the 9th inning. It happens all the time.

Why?

I suspect the beast 7th or 8th inning guy probably gets put into much better, winning situations than a 9th inning guy gets. What I mean by that is that an 8th inning guy will only face 2 batters and get pulled for a ROOGY/LOOGY for the tough batter, whereas the closer has to go 3 outs and face the tough batter, regardless of the side of plate. Also, in the 9th inning, the trailing team will pull all stops to get something going. They will pinch hit for the catcher in the 9th when they likely would not in the 6th, for example.

So why have a closer at all?

Because players like to "know their role". The closer knows, in the 6th inning, that he will be getting into the game in a couple innings if his team is still leading. He can get himself mentally prepared (just like a SP has his weekly routine for his rotation spot). A 6th inning guy knows that once the 7th inning comes along, he can "shut down", and he begins to mentally warm up in the 4th.

Is the closer over-rated?

Yes. But having a bully hierarchy is VERY important. For the Giants, for example, Jeramy Affeldt was never a closer. However, he playeda HUGE role in all 3 championships because he was a non-LOOGY lefty who could come into the game in the 6th inning (or earlier) and bridge the game to the next level (2010 brawl game, 2014 WS game 7). Wilson/Casilla would not have worked in those situations, because mentally, they were not prepared for those situations.

I remember those Yankee teams in the late 90's and everyone knew their role. Ramiro mendoza was their Affeldt. Could get one batter, could give you 3 or 4 innings. Everyone else had their roles as well until you got to the closer.

 

[calsnowskier]

I remember those Yankee teams in the late 90's and everyone knew their role. Ramiro mendoza was their Affeldt. Could get one batter, could give you 3 or 4 innings. Everyone else had their roles as well until you got to the closer.

Deep bullies are MUCH more valuable than just a good/great closer. A crappy 6th inning guy can cost you just as many games (or put your team in rough positions -- hello Hunter Strickland) as a bad closer. Except for the fact that typically, your BEST guy will be your closer, of course.

But the elite managers will go away from the strict roles in the playoffs. They will allow the LOOGY/ROOGY to take over in the ninth, if that is what is called for.

I think we are in agreement here...

 

[da55bums]

Over half of Mariano's post season saves are more than one inning.

lol, leaving out regular season saves?? wtf?

Smoltz hit a homer once, since we are going on random stats.