The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[shopson67]

Against the Hawks you say? Tell me more.

play-in game. 15/21 (better than 17/30)

 

[fightinfunbags]

play-in game. 15/21 (better than 17/30)

And against that great defense of the Hawks at home.

 

[shopson67]

And against that great defense of the Hawks at home.

Sure. Who do you consider a better defender, Dejounte or Brunson?

Again, not saying White is better. You just asked if he could do what Maxey did, and he had a very similar if not better game in the same month in a tournament game. You get so precious about your players lol.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Sure. Who do you consider a better defender, Dejounte or Brunson?

The NY Knicks. Go look at every metric

Again, not saying White is better. You just asked if he could do what Maxey did, and he had a very similar if not better game in the same month in a tournament game. You get so precious about your players lol.

It’s funny that you find them to be similar scenarios.

 

[ducky]

Teams have more depth, sharpshooters. It is more difficult to play defense with shooters everywhere and more athletes. It isn’t a shot to the older generations, it’s just the pool is bigger with international players. The game wouldn’t be what it is today if it wasn’t for those older generations but it doesn’t mean their was more talent. That is simply not sure.

Try defending the 3 best shooters of all time when they are shooting 30 footers. Plus KD’s shot is unblockable. Now you have 7 foot bigs that can shoot and uber-athletic. There is no comparison

Go back watch LeBron lose in the finals to a decrepit Mavs team and tell me again how LeBron was playing against better talent than MJ. A Mavs team who went a combined 1-6 in playoff series in the 4 years previous AND the 4 years subsequent to that title year combined.

Let's not compare the NBA NOW to what it was just 10 short years ago. NBA has really made quite the jump in the last 5-6 years. The Golden State years will be seen as starting a new era of NBA basketball.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Go back watch LeBron lose in the finals to a decrepit Mavs team and tell me again how LeBron was playing against better talent than MJ. A Mavs team who went a combined 1-6 in playoff series in the 4 years previous AND the 4 years subsequent to that title year combined.

Let's not compare the NBA NOW to what it was just 10 short years ago. NBA has really made quite the jump in the last 5-6 years. The Golden State years will be seen as starting a new era of NBA basketball.

Meh you are using one year-one series as an example. Yeah lets use data from the previous four years to try to deflect on how great that Mavs team really was...teams can never turn a corner according to you. It was similar to the Spurs team that played ridiculous team defense and offense except the Spurs team had more future HOFr's.

If you have to go back 14 years to find one series then you are in denial.

There is without a doubt more talent now simply due to international players and that doesn't account for players, coaches, training, analytical data, etc. evolving in general. One simple example - players back in the day did not have to defend the 3 ball like they did today with sharpshooters all over the court. 7 footers shooting 40%.
Tell me baseball hasn't evolved in the last 40 years...you would be wrong there too. Every other BP guy is throwing 95+.

 

[tlance]

Wasn't the point. You said the league was watered down. It became watered down when it expanded, but not when he entered the league. As I said, during his first 6 years, he played against some of the best teams in history. whether or not the team he was on was a contender doesn't change the fact that he played them.

I didn’t say that.

JJ Reddick did.

And it absolutely does. So what if he played the Showtime Lakers or got swept by the Bird Celtics.

They weren’t standing in the way of the Bulls winning a title because they weren’t close to ready.

And if the league hadn’t become watered down with expansion, maybe the pathway would have been a lot tougher in the 90s. Maybe the Bulls would have been better too.

We will never know.

 

[trojanfan12]

And it absolutely does. So what if he played the Showtime Lakers or got swept by the Bird Celtics.

They weren’t standing in the way of the Bulls winning a title because they weren’t close to ready.

Yeah, you're arguing against something I haven't said. And whether he faced those teams with a team that was a contender or not has nothing to do with the point I was making.

He faced some of the best teams in league history, that is a fact.

I'd also add that he showed his individual greatness against those teams.

 

[tlance]

Yeah, you're arguing against something I haven't said. And whether he faced those teams with a team that was a contender or not has nothing to do with the point I was making.

He faced some of the best teams in league history, that is a fact.

I'd also add that he showed his individual greatness against those teams.

Sure.

Not arguing with that.

Isn’t relevant to the context of Reddick’s comment is all I am saying.

The context is for the people who can’t see past the 6 is greater than 4 thing.

There is a lot more to the debate. The era in which MJ won is certainly an important part of it.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, you're arguing against something I haven't said. And whether he faced those teams with a team that was a contender or not has nothing to do with the point I was making.

He faced some of the best teams in league history, that is a fact.

I'd also add that he showed his individual greatness against those teams.

It is also a fact that when he won titles he was past facing those great teams.

 

[trojanfan12]

Sure.

Not arguing with that.

Isn’t relevant to the context of Reddick’s comment is all I am saying.

The context is for the people who can’t see past the 6 is greater than 4 thing.

There is a lot more to the debate. The era in which MJ won is certainly an important part of it.

Didn't hear Reddicks comment and don't care. I was pushing back only on your assertion that he didn't face tougher competition for part of his career when he absolutely did.

 

[trojanfan12]

It is also a fact that when he won titles he was past facing those great teams.

never said otherwise...but feel free to argue things that weren't said.

 

[msgkings322]

never said otherwise...but feel free to argue things that weren't said.

Always so pissy lol

 

[msgkings322]

Didn't hear Reddicks comment and don't care. I was pushing back only on your assertion that he didn't face tougher competition for part of his career when he absolutely did.

I think we're saying he didn't become the GOAT legend until the competition was weaker. In the LeBron vs MJ debate, the toughness of their opponents should be a factor.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Easy to end this debate. Lebron faced the best team ever.

Good luck guarding the best 3 shooters of all-time and they just aren't shooters, two of them can create their own shot at an elite level. Then you add in the elite team defense.

This is why comparing teams in different eras is impossible. Those 70's-80's-90's teams' defenses would look way worse when having to close out sharpshooters with quick releases from 25+ feet. It is just common sense. There is more competition and more depth in this league now. We should just stop comparing MJ competition to LBJ competition. MJ is not beating that super team Warriors. Kyrie and Lebron stole two games and they went bonkers.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think we're saying he didn't become the GOAT legend until the competition was weaker. In the LeBron vs MJ debate, the toughness of their opponents should be a factor.

If he has the deal with Lakers, Pistons and Celtics he could have no titles. If he had to face those Warriors teams, he would have less titles. MJ definitely won at the RIGHT time, there was a dip. So it really isn't fair for titles to be the end of the GOAT conversation. MJ playing in the Warriors dynasty could have the same number as Lebron or less, who knows. Who really cares tbh

 

[tlance]

I think we're saying he didn't become the GOAT legend until the competition was weaker. In the LeBron vs MJ debate, the toughness of their opponents should be a factor.

Exactly.

And the toughness of competition when his team was sub .500 and getting bounced in the first round doesn’t matter at all.

 

[msgkings322]

Easy to end this debate. Lebron faced the best team ever.

Good luck guarding the best 3 shooters of all-time and they just aren't shooters, two of them can create their own shot at an elite level. Then you add in the elite team defense.

This is why comparing teams in different eras is impossible. Those 70's-80's-90's teams' defenses would look way worse when having to close out sharpshooters with quick releases from 25+ feet. It is just common sense. There is more competition and more depth in this league now. We should just stop comparing MJ competition to LBJ competition. MJ is not beating that super team Warriors. Kyrie and Lebron stole two games and they went bonkers.

The Cavs won once in the 2017 finals and got swept in 2018. The 2015 team wasn’t yet the all time best, needed KD for that

 

[thunderc]

Exactly.

And the toughness of competition when his team was sub .500 and getting bounced in the first round doesn’t matter at all.

I think we all have eyes, to me that’s my decider. I know what I saw. Now the people that didn’t see MJ night after night can’t possibly be coming from the same place.

 

[msgkings322]

I think we all have eyes, to me that’s my decider. I know what I saw. Now the people that didn’t see MJ night after night can’t possibly be coming from the same place.

Most of us saw both MJ and LeBron with our own eyes too dude.