The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[bksballer89]

Who said what?

That Joker isn’t deserving?

Pretty sure you said that.

Said SGA deserved it more. Never said Jokic didn’t deserve it

Lying isn’t cool

 

[tlance]

Said SGA deserved it more. Never said Jokic didn’t deserve it

Lying isn’t cool

First, I said I am pretty sure you said it. Not that you definitely did say it.

Or at the very least that is how I interpreted your many rants on the topic.

So don’t be accusing me of lying

I don’t care enough to go back and look.

But honestly seems like semantics to me

Because when you come out so strongly in favor of 1 player, seems like kind of the same thing to me.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Yeah.

Problem there was that Cleveland and LeBron never really went for it in the regular season.

We all knew he was the best player. I thought he should have won at least twice in that stretch, but I also get why he didn’t.

I fully get Lebron making the finals 4 years in a row isn't nearly as impressive as Jokics "look what I did guys I Vorp'd and Raptor'd my way to the 6th seed and a 1st rd exit championship" banner

 

[tlance]

I fully get Lebron making the finals 4 years in a row isn't nearly as impressive as Jokics "look what I did guys I Vorp'd and Raptor'd my way to the 6th seed and a 1st rd exit championship" banner

Did I say that?

If I were in charge of MVP LeBron would have like 9

And then there would be no issue.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Did I say that?

If I were in charge of MVP LeBron would have like 9

And then there would be no issue.

Yes. Because lebron deserves 9

Jordan deserves 9

A dude with one title and potentially 3 second rd or earlier playoff exits doesn't deserve to be running away with MVPs.

Point blank. Flat out. If he was out here blowing out shit year after year I'd be the first to be putting him on that Lebron pedestal.

But the bar is ultra high for 3 MVPs where I stand. Jokic doesn't belong there yet.

Maybe he gets there. I tend to doubt it. But with these voting patterns I'm seeing this dude getting 2 or 3 more. And that is sacrilegious if he doesn't have the playoff success to go with it.

 

[thunderc]

Yes. Because lebron deserves 9

Jordan deserves 9

A dude with one title and potentially 3 second rd or earlier playoff exits doesn't deserve to be running away with MVPs.

Point blank. Flat out. If he was out here blowing out shit year after year I'd be the first to be putting him on that Lebron pedestal.

But the bar is ultra high for 3 MVPs where I stand. Jokic doesn't belong there yet.

Maybe he gets there. I tend to doubt it. But with these voting patterns I'm seeing this dude getting 2 or 3 more. And that is sacrilegious if he doesn't have the playoff success to go with it.

this

 

[Stakesarehigh]

this

Thank you

I can't believe so many of us aren't offended by this.

Maybe Jokic shoves it up my ass and goes out and wins a 2nd title this year. And if he does my tone changes. And YES I KNOW it's a regular season award

But come on man. How are more people not bothered at this man entering the list of elite elites at this stage.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Thank you

I can't believe so many of us aren't offended by this.

Maybe Jokic shoves it up my ass and goes out and wins a 2nd title this year. And if he does my tone changes. And YES I KNOW it's a regular season award



But come on man. How are more people not bothered at this man entering the list of elite elites at this stage.

 

[thunderc]

Thank you

I can't believe so many of us aren't offended by this.

Maybe Jokic shoves it up my ass and goes out and wins a 2nd title this year. And if he does my tone changes. And YES I KNOW it's a regular season award

But come on man. How are more people not bothered at this man entering the list of elite elites at this stage.

And that’s what I mean when I say for whatever reason established norms don’t apply to him.

 

[tlance]

Yes. Because lebron deserves 9

Jordan deserves 9

A dude with one title and potentially 3 second rd or earlier playoff exits doesn't deserve to be running away with MVPs.

Point blank. Flat out. If he was out here blowing out shit year after year I'd be the first to be putting him on that Lebron pedestal.

But the bar is ultra high for 3 MVPs where I stand. Jokic doesn't belong there yet.

Maybe he gets there. I tend to doubt it. But with these voting patterns I'm seeing this dude getting 2 or 3 more. And that is sacrilegious if he doesn't have the playoff success to go with it.

Can’t change the past man.

But maybe voters can get it right in the future.

And if the next guy like Wemby deserves to win 7 or 8?

Maybe he will.

Won’t make him better or worse than the players who came before him.

 

[SpringStein]

I fully get Lebron making the finals 4 years in a row isn't nearly as impressive as Jokics "look what I did guys I Vorp'd and Raptor'd my way to the 6th seed and a 1st rd exit championship" banner

Oh yes, this is it! Joker the Self Promoter!

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Can’t change the past man.

But maybe voters can get it right in the future.

And if the next guy like Wemby deserves to win 7 or 8?

Maybe he will.

Won’t make him better or worse than the players who came before him.2¾4

All we have in sports from a past perspective is stats, titles or playoff success and accolades.

The history has to matter for something. That's why I'm calling this pure laziness because I know exactly how these folks are landing at Jokic being a landslide MVP vote and it offends me to my core as someone who watches the game regularly.

I can't imagine how it makes someone like Jordan feel. Maybe it doesn't affect him. But given how competitive he is I can't imagine he'd be thrilled if one time champ Nikola Jokic passes him in MVP tallies

(I'm forecasting a bit and could totally eat shit on this point)

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I always have to leave an exit strategy lol

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Oh yes, this is it! Joker the Self Promoter!

Where is the 6th seed banner hung though

Hopefully from the highest point in the Rockies for all the world to bask in its greatness

 

[tlance]

All we have in sports from a past perspective is stats, titles or playoff success and accolades.

The history has to matter for something. That's why I'm calling this pure laziness because I know exactly how these folks are landing at Jokic being a landslide MVP vote and it offends me to my core as someone who watches the game regularly.

I can't imagine how it makes someone like Jordan feel. Maybe it doesn't affect him. But given how competitive he is I can't imagine he'd be thrilled if one time champ Nikola Jokic passes him in MVP tallies

(I'm forecasting a bit and could totally eat shit on this point)

He isn’t getting another one.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I don't have an issue with jokic winning as much as I do with him winning by a large margin

This is a close race

We see how Denver is doing when Murray is ordinary

To be a 3 time winner you need to be extra special.

He’s a unicorn as an analytics guy on paper and it’s occurring at the right moment in sports as analytics have become an appreciable driving force in all sports. He's broken the metrics because they reward assists for centers in a disproportionate way and they over value defensive rebounds for a guy who isn’t a) rim protection or b) a guy who can track one on one on the perimeter. Even his limitations get rewarded by the way these analytics are charted.

The only way Jokic doesn’t win 2-3 more MVPs in his career is if you see a concerted effort to go and attack the holes in the metrics.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

He’s a unicorn as an analytics guy on paper and it’s occurring at the right moment in sports as analytics have become an appreciable driving force in all sports. He's broken the metrics because they reward assists for centers in a disproportionate way and they over value defensive rebounds for a guy who isn’t a) rim protection or b) a guy who can track one on one on the perimeter. Even his limitations get rewarded by the way these analytics are charted.

The only way Jokic doesn’t win 2-3 more MVPs in his career is if you see a concerted effort to go and attack the holes in the metrics.

I put the chances that he wins even 1 more at about 10%.

If they do end up flaming out this year, that probably drops even lower.

 

[SpringStein]

Where is the 6th seed banner hung though

Hopefully from the highest point in the Rockies for all the world to bask in its greatness

Ok, who would you have voted for in 2021?
Joel who played in 51 games?
Jokić received 971 out of a possible 1010 total points in the voting. Somehow voters who are paid to watch games overwhelmingly decided that carrying a team starting Facundo Compazzo, Will Barton, Aaron Gordon (obtained in a trade after year started), and Paul Millsap, who was absolutely on his last legs to 6th place was worthy.

 

[fightinfunbags]

You have me confused with some of these others like funbags. I don't care that much, Jokic is certainly deserving. It is obvious to me though that his 'superiority' to the other contenders isn't very large and certainly less so than LeBron's superiority to Rose that year

This is the point of MVP awards by the way, the arguing. There's almost never a year when one player is so much more valuable than the others that there's no dispute. Jokic is a good choice, as SGA or Luka would have been.

One of the Denver fans suggested a really good idea, adding an Offensive POY award...there's already a DPOY and they have OPOY in football. Add that to the NBA and a lot of the arguing stops, sometimes the same guy wins both but then Russell Westbrook and James Harden can win OPOY and a better choice can be made for MVP those years.

Jokic would maybe be MVP this year with Luka OPOY. Or maybe SGA MVP and Jokic OPOY. OK I guess there will still be arguing LOL

I’m good now. I’ve just accepted where we are. You know what I’m talking about because it happened in baseball first. Analytics rule and Jokic game translates super well to those metrics. He’s found the cheat code in the metrics. I’m phrasing this all wrong. The guy himself is just selling out and playing the best basketball he can. It just so happens that it breaks the metrics.

At this point, it’s back when we were kids and your buddy is bragging about winning a Madden Super Bowl in league mode with the beginner settings vs the computer.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I put the chances that he wins even 1 more at about 10%.

If they do end up flaming out this year, that probably drops even lower.

Disagree. Like @msgkings322 you’re a baseball guy. You know first hand the grip analytics has on sports. Every single season Jokic will be in the mix because of the huge gaps he amasses in those metrics. He broke the system.